What Drumkit for £1000 - £1500?

[primemeat64]

Hi Guys N Gals,

I've been putting off buying a kit for a loooong time, I'd like to start taking both my drum playing and recording seriously and I want a really nice kit (for the price).... I know that virtually all makes are great in the high end but I'm looking at the cool middle....

Also, would you say it's right to look at spending 1/3 of the budget on the Snare, 1/3 on the kit + hardware, and 1/3 on cymbals??

As you can tell, I'm a noob to drums (guitar n bass is my thing)...

If you need more info then please ask, I check back regularly...

Thanks in advance!

Leo

[themaidsroom]

as someone who spends alot of time in the uk - fly to new york - buy the
drumkit here - in my experience gear and everything related to gear is
absurdly priced in london - usually more in the # of £ than the # of $ while the
exchange rate is 2 to 1 - dealers have a markup in the uk that no u.s. dealer
would ever consider



be well


- jack

[primemeat64]

I've thought of that but return flights to NYC are like £400 PLUS i'd probably breach both my weight and size allowance and have to pay extra to return with the kit...... I think if I was already going to NYC then perhaps that'd be an option but I think that pretty much cancels out the price of the markup and the exchange rate....

Thanks though!

[Grumblefoot]

Take a look at the pearl masters series and also the tama b/b(birch bubinga) performers they should be in your range. Snares... nothing beats a Luddy superphonic. as for cymbals... I'm a Sabian guy AAX,HHX, and HH series for recording I'd go thin crashes medium to heavy ride and hats. Just my 2 cents.

[videoteque]

Nice drums for 650 pounds you can use the rest to buy decent cymbals!

[primemeat64]

an obvious comment but I'm in love with the Bonham sound, naturally... Is a black beauty an updated (better sounding??) supraphonic? Either way I think £350 / £450 is fine for a decent snare, I'll have to try a couple out...

I've heard that basically Zildjian are the only cymbals worth having these days, no idea how true that is but I've like the ones i've heard (no idea what models!)

as for the rest of the kit, I'd like some acrylics because I like the sound / volume / look but I realise they are both annoyingly heavy and pricey...

Thanks for the advice so far guys, keep it coming - whenever I complete my kit i'll post pics / recordings!

One side question about kicks - what difference does it make having a really tall kick that's not very deep as opposed to a short one that's really deep? I like powerful kick... (does anybody not? jazz guys?)

[primemeat64]

also at a push I could go to maybe £1750 (maybe £2k?) but I don't want to go too crazy (and feel like an idiot for having an expensive kit and being rubbish on it) so it's important to note a couple of things about my circumstance:-

I'm a complete amature drummer although I adore drums and will probably take it quite far...Also for recording purposes, realise the GIGO (garbage in garbage out) principle and ultimately, everybody wan'ts a nice sounding kit!
Also, I need a bit of cash to buy a stereo set of SDC's like AKG451, Neumann184 or BeyerMC930... not sure which because obviously a pair of good 414's will blow all those out the water and that's what I'll get later on.... (although I guess at a push i'd rather have a cool kit and borrow extra mics for a while!)

sorry if i'm getting confusing.


thanks

[BLUElightCory]

In my experience I've always found myself loving Tama Starclassics. The bubinga is my personal favorite, followed by the new birch/bubinga hybrid and then the birch. They sound great and are built well with nice hardware, and are inexpensive compared to other high end and boutique manufacturers (but they can hang in terms of quality).

The difference between the Black Beauty and the Supraphonic snare is largely a matter of taste; for what it's worth I have a 6.5 x 14" Black Beauty that always seems to beat out the other dozen or so snares we have access to at my studio. I record mostly hard rock, indie rock, alternative, and metal music.

As far as cymbals go, there are plenty of cymbals besides Zildjians that sound good for recording purposes, although you can't go wrong with some A Customs or K series on a kit. I'd suggest heading to your local music store and comparing cymbals yourself. I like to look for a nice musical tonality that's not too bright or too loud; something that will sound good and not dominate the overhead or room mics.

As far as bass drums, larger diameter kicks tend to have more low end response and "boom," while a smaller diameter drum will usually exhibit more focus and less overall low end response (all other variables being equal). A 22x18" is the most common kick I've come across; I personally really like the sound of birch and/or bubinga 24" kicks the best (with my room and mic setup). Again, I'd get out there and check out some drums in person to see what you think will suit you the best. Keep in mind also that a larger diameter drum will require a bit more effort on the drummer's part to get a good, solid kick performance.

Hope this helps,
Cory Spotts

[primemeat64]

cory, great reply thanks! I definitely agree with going to a shop and trying things out - I wouldn't drop £1000 - £2000 on anything instrument without playing it first. The main reason for the thread is so I can have ideas of what I should be trying out... what has the right reputation (and the right price - I wouldn't like to sit at a £4000 kit in a shop and fall in love before I knew it was out of my range!).

I think the starclassics are out of my reach, maybe the cheaper performer starclassics birch / bubinga (whatever they're called) - luckily I'm only looking at 2 x crash, hats and 1 ride (and / or 1 crash ride) - I'd be in trouble if I was one of those 8 cymbal guys.
I will say that due to the Bonham influence that I'm definately going for larger sizes in the shell department though... Damn me and my Bonham-tuned ears

[chrisj]

If you're a Bonham nut make sure your drum is Ludalloy, not brass. Ludalloy is kinda like aluminum and cuts way down on the clangy quality. I'm a big fan of aluminum snares- use a hotrodded keystone-badge Acrolite because that appears to be what Nick Mason had on Echoes on "Live At Pompeii". The airy transparent CRAK! of these is addictive. Bonham didn't often crank the batter head tension on the snare up that tight, but with ludalloy, tight snare head, and loose-ish snares, he still got LOADS of presence, even for a heavy lower-tuned snare. (for me 'high-tuned' means Stewart Copeland- silly tight)

I always found that really big drums (at least the kick) are less bassy just because they produce more of a WHACK! than a thud. All midrangey. It's like the click gets shifted down into a whack. I ended up changing from a big 24" slingerland kick to a small 20" taye... which doesn't have so much of a Bonham sound, but is more contained, and I tune it the same way.

It's going to be mostly about tuning for you if that's the sound you want. Resonator heads tight (I make them real tight) and batter heads more loose (I go almost slack). After that, swing like a mofo! 9/10 of the Bonham sound is keeping things swinging and flexible, not rigid and battering.

Also, I'm a Zildjian fanatic and like thin crashes, but for Bonham you will be wanting Paistes and perhaps heavier ones (maybe not as much as modern heavy cymbals though)

[Clayphish]

Maybe look into Premier drums? They're established in London, so they might be priced nicely for what you get.

[primemeat64]

Hmn... it seems really hard to find kits with 26" bass drums!

The tuning tip was great thanks! I'm not trying to emulate Bonham 100%, for example I know he used Paiste but I'm not sure I will (isn't that now considered a poor cymbal?)

So far I'm considering

1) Tama Starclassic Performer (Birch/Bubinga)

2) Ludwig of some kind? - They do a Zep set but it's tough to find, also I'd like 2 mounted toms as opposed to Bonhams 1...

I Went To Guitar Center For A New Head, And Left With A New Kit! - I saw this other thread where a guy got a great sounding kit with a greath Bonham like kick (listen to the mp3) - he got his kit for $600!!! Even if that translated to £750 becuase of the rip off that the UK is, then I'm there! - then I've got loads of room for snare, cymbals, hardware, cases, skins...
So far, I've only seen it for like £1000 as a shell pack or £1500 with hardware... Ludwig "Zep Set" Accent Custom Series Outfit | Dolphin Music

Not sure on Cymbals yet but really need to try em out!

Probably a Supraphonic or Black Beauty snare...

Any Ideas on a really solid, really 'fast' kick pedal... I've I'm gonna get the triplets, might as well advantage myself!

[primemeat64]

Just had an idea regarding the first reply.....


Is there anyway I could buy a kit from the US and pay for it to be shipped over here? Any ideas at all how much that would cost? surely it would be cheaper than paying for a flight there plus extra weight of returning it etc?

So far I'm thinking one of these four...

Tama Starclassic
Tama Starclassic Performer
Ludwig Accent Zep Set
Ludwig Vistalites Zep Set

Ideas?

THanks

[Grumblefoot]

Actually Paiste are considered by most as super high end I'd look at the 20 series if I were you I believe the are reproductions of the cymbals they made in the 70's. Sabian and Zildjian are two made by 2 brothers, one took over Dad's cymbal empire (Zildjian) the other off to Canada to make his own line(Sabian) they use nearly the same alloy mix as they were both taught by their father. It seems that the lathing and hammering processes is where they differ. Also take a look at this very informative.

YouTube - Drum Tech Jeff Ocheltree

[mrmicguy]

fwiw I ended up getting a Peal Masters Birch kit with Zild Custom A cymbals for my studio. I'm not a drummer, but got sick of everyone bringing in their pile of cardboard boxes and then complaining about the drum sound. Did some research and hitting and bought this setup. No more complaints. I will probably add some Zild Custom K cymbals to the collectioin at some stage. Sweet kick drum in the set. 22 x 24 I think. Got an old feller in to help me set them up (he's been playing drums longer than I've been alive.

[Grumblefoot]

I have a Pearl Masters Birch and IMHO they are the best sounding kit in the universe.

[worm]

theres loads of drum shops in london, go and hit a few drums.

[phaqu]

Originally Posted by primemeat64

I I need a bit of cash to buy a stereo set of SDC's like AKG451, Neumann184 or BeyerMC930... not sure which because obviously a pair of good 414's will blow all those out the water and that's what I'll get later on.... (although I guess at a push i'd rather have a cool kit and borrow extra mics for a while!)

I wouldnt say the 414 would blow any of those mics out of the water. Im not saying they suck ass, but,..Im not real crazy about my 414s as overheads.
Maybe its just me or maybe its my mics but I would try and older pair of 451EBs or the M930s first.

[primemeat64]

Originally Posted by phaqu

I wouldnt say the 414 would blow any of those mics out of the water. Im not saying they suck ass, but,..Im not real crazy about my 414s as overheads.
Maybe its just me or maybe its my mics but I would try and older pair of 451EBs or the M930s first.

I should've been a little more clear: I didn't mean blow them out of the water as OH, I meant generally, 414's pretty much go on everything...

theres loads of drum shops in london, go and hit a few drums.

I'm in north yorkshire about 80% of the time between now and may, I'll be in london a bit... of course, trying drums out is the best way to see if you like them but due to my inexperience, I'm looking to be pointed in the right direction! - Also, can you reccomend any drum shops in london, I wouldn't know where to start!

Thanks,

Leo

[phaqu]

Originally Posted by primemeat64

Any Ideas on a really solid, really 'fast' kick pedal... I've I'm gonna get the triplets, might as well advantage myself!

DW 5000AD chain drive
Ive had/have a few pedals and been using that one for quite a few years.

[james.ca]

You got lots of bread 1000 pounds should get you into the Odery line .
They do have the wood downt here. The shop was a machine shop and went into drum making they make there own hard ware and custom plate in quite a few varitys as well.
It's the best drum hard ware i've ever seen on a kit . Woods they got , well they are in Brasil they'll cut a tree down for ya .


kit is like a lifetime buy
James.ca

[primemeat64]

thanks for your reply

Originally Posted by james.ca

You got lots of bread 1000 pounds should get you into the Odery line

I thought Odery were like £2500? I'm gonna be laying down about £400 for a snare and heck knows how much for cymbals... I'd be happy with the made in taiwan ludwig zep set (but would prefer the tama's in the same or a similar configuration!)

[84K]

Hey Leo,

I am not a drummer, so I can only offer so much. Go to a store, hit the drums. When one has something that grabs you, then go for it. That is really all I can say. Now when you find the one that moves you and you want to talk about mic'ing it up, I would have a lot more to add. Best Of Luck!!

[Space Station]

Hi..ive been drumming since I was 5 years old so that means i've been playing for ermm a very long time now . Anyway I've played and owned at least 30-40 kits so far..and my evaluation is that Birch is no1 and I really think the best sounding birch kit is a Pearl BLX...this kit can only be bought secondhand now but it will save you loads of money. Recent trends were to make shells thin..which in my opinion is all wrong. It makes the drums ring little better but takes away all the thunder Luckily the BLX was made before this trend started so doesnt suffer from this. Engineers live and in the studio..nearly always comment on how good the bass drum and toms sound. Seriously. They record wonderfully and sound like cannons live. The Pearl 6 1/2 inch free floating snare is also fantastic in any material ie brass/steel/maple. They often beat my Noble & Cooley 8" deep Classic SS snare in shootouts..and that snare cost nearly £1000. Pearl double braced hardware and stands are also second to none. DW pedal I would go with. Any high end cymbal will sound good..I prefer Zildjian myself.

There was a whole BLX kit inc snare on ebay with everything except cymbals for £500..and I guarantee you will have a hard time beating it even with £3000 in your pocket.

The pearl birch masters is the only kit i've played that comes close.

[worm]

i second the second hand route. a lot of lines that have been discontinued by well known manufacturers are looooads cheaper now than when they were the current model. like the BLX as mentioned by Space Station. Premier Signia and even the higher deluxe Signia Marquis go for next to nothing compared to what they were when they were Premiers top drums. a 5 piece kit could have easily cost you £2500. i've seen full kits with cymbals, hardware and cases go on ebay for £800. it's almost criminal!... just because they've been discontinued doesn't mean they're no good. signia are world class. and theres a ton of other brands with discontinued lines which rock too.

anyway, some drum shops in london: drumshack, propercussion, footes, wembley drum centre, andy's drums

google 'em

[primemeat64]

Thank you all for your input to date...there is some really great advice here - please keep it coming! - it's really helping me formulate ideas.... i definately know what I want to try out!

I can get vistalites custom made for £1800 or buy the bonham set for £2199 but both of these are a little out of my range... although I'm awaiting an offer for a personal injury claim which is likely to be around £2k which will change the whole picture somewhat (if it comes in fast enough!) - but again, as I said earlier, due to my skill level I'd feel a bit foolish spending £2199 on a kit (then like £1000 on snare + cymbals + kick pedal etc)...

A shop in london has the Starclassic Performer B/B for £1199 although they don't say what sizes :( I might give em a call when i'm next down there in a couple of weeks...

looks like I should try out some pearl birch masters right.... Hope they do big bass drums... it seems so unfashionable to have 24 x 18 or 26 x 18 hmm........

[Grumblefoot]

If you are gonna go 24 or 26 on the kick I would go no deeper than 16 as thats ALOT of air to move.

[primemeat64]

Originally Posted by Grumblefoot

If you are gonna go 24 or 26 on the kick I would go no deeper than 16 as thats ALOT of air to move.

What does that result in? - Harder to play / tune / record?

[biggator6]

Funny about the mention above of Signias... I picked up a used set a few months back... I paid $700 for them - after getting the guy to throw in an extra $150 worth of stuff (brand new heads for the whole kit, etc).. so really closer to $550.

FWIW - they kill anything under about 2k new... maybe more

[primemeat64]

cool, looks like i'm also hunting for signias! - shame again though, it'll probably be so much down to luck if i find a set in large sizes...

btw I found on dolphin, the zep set (shell pack) for £1099 sadly only in crappy sparkle finish...

Just to check (man I sound ignorant) - a shell pack just means without cymbas right? or does it mean there's no snare / tom stands or anything else?