What Drumkit for £1000 - £1500?

[Space Station]

Originally Posted by primemeat64

looks like I should try out some pearl birch masters right.... Hope they do big bass drums... it seems so unfashionable to have 24 x 18 or 26 x 18 hmm........

24 is not really unfashionable its more fashionable now than ever. 22x16 is pretty much the standard bass drum size and you can get virtually any sound from one..that's why. and it's definitley not a small drum.

24 you start to get into specialist one sound drums and they start to lose their punch due to the amount of air moving...26 is defintely that way even a 24x18 is a huge drum and im not joking here...dont fit through some doors!

[primemeat64]

well now that's cleared things up and presented a bit of a conundrum! - I really like the big kick sound, I think the sound of a metal kick - when it's virtually all the 'clicky' sound of the beater is DISGUSTING.

- there are, however a LOT of more 'focused / tighter' kick sounds that i like.... and in fact, whilst I like the kick sound in Kashmir as part of the Bonham sound, I've always thought (for that song in particular) that it could be a little more puncy - when I saw them in london, the kick was like dynamite - really did Kashmir justice...

Aren't Vistalite kicks known for power / punch as well as the depth and 'swing' that Bonham had? (even in 26 x 18 size)... I've never heard one in person....

[Space Station]

A 26" kick drum is definitely a specialist one kind of sound drum..i really wouldn't recommend it.

Also 26x18 im pretty sure that bonham used a 26x14 not 18.

18inch depth is pretty much a new thing...kcik drums in the 60's 70's were usually 14" in depth. then they went to 16" and toms also got deeper and were called the power sizes..and now we have 18" kicks and even deeper toms..

read this: http://www.ludwigdrummer.com/Articles/BonhamsKits.doc

[primemeat64]

A great read - thanks for the info!

how would having a depth of 18" as opposed to 14" affect the sound?

A Couple of kick sounds I like:

1) "You Shook Me All Night Long"... I like that kick sound...well... it's fairly consistent through the whole album....

2) John Bonham

3) Coldplay "In My Place" - that's a kindof Bonham kick sound

4) Biffy Clyro - "Glitter and Trauma" (after the 1 minute intro, of course!)


Do you think something like a 22 x 18 / 22 x 16 / 22 x 14 or 24 x 18 / 24 x 16 / 24 x 14 could be versatile enough to be tuned to the bonham / coldplay sound but perhaps with some ACDC in there? I'd probably keep it like that but it would also be nice if I could also tune it differently and get the more modern Biffy Sound....

[videoteque]

thumbsup buy second hand +1
Don't 90% of your budget in drums!!! Don't forget cymbals and pedals/hardware!!!

[primemeat64]

Thanks for the reply mate

Well, first off I need to find out what I'm looking for out of the 1000's of makes and models and variations available....

And well, Then I need to actually try as many of those kits as I can (unless a great deal pops up on a highly reccomended kit before I've had a chance to try it).

So yeah of course 2nd hand is fine with me - it's going to save me lots and I want good cymbals and a good snare so don't worry I wont blow my whole budget just on the kit... I'm really hoping I luck out on my personal injury claim though, that would make things easier...

[primemeat64]

Any more suggestions? - All viewpoints are welcome!

Also, any more pointers about kick size would be great!

Thanks

[primemeat64]

bump

[Grumblefoot]

Sorry I lost the thread...... The 24" kick will indeed give you the round deep tone you desire. IMHO (playing drums for damn ,25 years now YIKES) deeper and longer will result in a HUGE air transfer from batter end to resonant end which gives you a real flabby sound with next to no attack. That is why I said stay with 16" depth(or 14") on a kick over 22" in diameter the physics are against you if you go bigger. Check out the prices at massmusic.net, if you contact Andy@massmusic.net he can tell you more about shipping, also check out some drum forums and get some opinions from there. Like this forum lots of pros and builders roam these forums also lots of drummers.

[primemeat64]

Hey grumblefoot thanks for the reply - your knowledge and experience is very much appreciated.

My dilema is that I adore a few different kick sounds - as per my examples previously posted.... - If at all possible I'd like a kick which can do bombastic / swining (aka John Bonham) - but can also do tighter, more focused / punch... so basically I'm not sure if I should really go for the bonham 26 x 14 because that might not give me the punchyness that I, or others whom I record on my kit, desire... although I've somebody told me that the vistalite kick is really great.... as i've previously said though I havent actually heard it properly!


I've emailed andy as per your reccomendation - thanks! - I'd had a hard time finding anybody who'd even quote for an import job!

[Grumblefoot]

If you are worried you can get a good deep sound from a standard 18"x22" kick that will come with most shell packs(no hardware with this so be careful with pricing). By changing the tuning you will be able to get almost any sound you might need. Have a look at the Pearl( I think they are BRP or BMP now) 6-ply birch shells, might save you some time with eq'ing. Happy to help I have limited areas of knowledge, you just happened to tap into my biggest area.

[primemeat64]

Originally Posted by Grumblefoot

you can get a good deep sound from a standard 18"x22" kick that will come with most shell packs(no hardware with this so be careful with pricing).

Originally Posted by Grumblefoot

By changing the tuning you will be able to get almost any sound you might need..

I suppose I'm after a bit of a hybrid, would an 18 x 22 get me anywhere near bonham? and would 18 x 24 or 16 x 24 be too big to get a tight, focused, contemporary sound?

also, why do you put it like this - "good deep sound ... 18"x22" kick that will come with most shell packs" are you merely slipping in an explanation as to what a shell pack is? it's just a little odd phrasing, no?

(btw, shell packs - i still dont understand 100% - are we talking just no cymbal stands or are we talking no cymabl stands, no snare stands / tom mounts / floor tom legs? - sorry if that sounds ridiculous but hey - im here to learn and presumably so is anybody who reads this thread for advice!)

Originally Posted by Grumblefoot

Have a look at the Pearl( I think they are BRP or BMP now) 6-ply birch shells, might save you some time with eq'ing.

is the BRP / BMP (whatever) the masters that you were talking about? - also i don't personally understand how different ply shells affects the sound - and are you saying that because they're 6-ply THAT will save me eq'ing or because it's pearl masters?

Sorry for not reading you right, maybe because its 1am GMT?

thanks again btw

[Grumblefoot]

If you go 16"x24" you can get a tight focused sound with the proper tuning deep but focused.

Most shell packs come with a few "standard sizes" for example you might have an 18x22 kick toms might be 8x10 9x12, and the floor tom lets say 12x14 is (x) amount. The next pack might have an 18x20 kick 7x10 and 11x13 and lets say a 14x16 floor and is the same price. Just stating that 18x22 is a "standard size" where the 16x24 will most probably be a special order.

shell packs are the drums with mounting hardware, so tom arms floor tom legs included. Cymbals,cymbal stands,snare stands,kick pedal, and throne are not.

Yes Pearl as of Jan 07 changed their Master series in name only so now instead of Pearl Masters Studio's (Which are birch and what I own). Are now the Pearl Masters BMP-BRP (which are different depending on the shell ply) one is 4ply one is 6 ply the pearl website can give more details. It has been stated by many and I agree that birch is the best when it comes to studio drums, something about the tone of birch makes them easier on the ears and very punchy.I find that helps me when eq'ing. Sorry the thinner the shell the more it resonates so you have longer sustain which for me is not ideal in a studio setting. No problem late is late get some rest this kinda thing can eat away at your skull if you think too much about it.

[primemeat64]

thanks for clearing all that up man - as for eating away at my skull I wouldnt worry too much, i pop knowledge and info like smarties when it takes my interest.

This isn't me being a devils advocate, and obviously I can only get so much from advice - i'm gonna hit a point soon when I know what i'm after and I just need to actually HEAR FOR MYSELF... but what difference would there be between your suggested 16 x 24 and an 18 x 22?

Also, would you say that something like a 16 x 24 would be a good enough hybrid choice for my needs or do you think I should be excessive and save a little to get two kicks, a big ass bonham 26 x 14 or 26 x 16 then get a more cannon like 18 x 20 for the modern stuff??

[Grumblefoot]

IMHO a 16"x24" kick should get you close but as another poster said the bigger you get the more a one trick pony. 18"x22" kick will get you alot closer to modern rock stuff but the 24" can be made tight enough to get you on the same street.

[primemeat64]

cool, sound advice! (excuse the unintentional pun).

Is it advisable to avoid shell sets or to go for them? Do they add massive premiums onto the hardware? will it be any good? - I don't have any hardware, I've got a set of Vic Firth 5B's and a tambourine lol

[Grumblefoot]

It depends on what you can get the dealer to budge on if you buy new ask them to throw it in or cut the price, you can usually haggle a bit if you have money and know what you want. Most companies will offer hardware packs at an additional cost just make sure you know what comes with the pack and what doesn't...was looking earlier at a tama pack and it didn't come with tom arms so double check to be safe. Glad I could help let me know how it goes.

[primemeat64]

honestly i wouldnt know if a hardware pack was missing something important like tom arms... i'll probably just have one tom on a snare stand which simplifies things (like in the zep kits)....

I can't believe its freaking 0324 thats early.... but then i'm downloading the zep o2 arena discs that have just been posted on this forum! - you can read a slimmed down version of my experience on that thread if that would interest you?

[primemeat64]

btw for anybody reading this, it's not just a conversation between me and grumble (although he's contributed muchos, so props there).

Please, chime in if you've got any advice!!

Thanks

[chrisso]

I can't say this strongly enough.....
Buy used!

http://www.drumshack.co.uk/product.a...ria=&PT_ID=158

[TornadoTed]

I just got some of the Millenium heavy duty hardware from Thomann, it is very impressive.

They are super solid, heavy, seem really good quality and are pretty cheap.

I'd go second hand for cymbals, I got a Zildjian A 16" Crash, 20" ride and 14" new beat HH for less than £200 on eBay.

[Grumblefoot]

I would agree with the previous posters get used if possible ebay is good for that also for cymbals and hardware since the pound is up so much against the dollar ebay U.S.A. might serve you well if you can get someone to ship it overseas.

[primemeat64]

Thanks for the info guys, I really am considering buying used - seems like a no brainer.

That drumshack link was wicked I think I'll go check that place out when i'm in brixton in feb... I can't find any other used drums in london (wtf is wrong with me? Must be a bad google day)...

As for buying cymbals from ebay, well I'd prefer to hear them first but I keep getting the zild A series reccomended so maybe if I see a great bargain then yeah maybe!

And yeah as for the state of the dollar / pound / uk VAT etc Im really getting ripped in the UK so unless I find some good stuff used here then importing is definately an option. I've got no idea how much importing a whole kit would be though - havent heard back from andy yet....

Just read on some website where a guy won a competition, this is what he got:

Brand spanking new set of ludwig vistalites (bonham config) with paiste cymbals and frigging JEFF OCHELTREE WENT TO THE WINNERS HOUSE TO SET UP THE KIT AND DISCUSS TECHNIQU ETC!!!! - made me so jealous I wanted to puke

[primemeat64]

Originally Posted by TornadoTed

I just got some of the Millenium heavy duty hardware from Thomann, it is very impressive.

They are super solid, heavy, seem really good quality and are pretty cheap.

sweet I'll keep that in mind if i end up with a shell pack.

thanks for the advice.... no 1 person can know everything so... hurrah for gearslutz - what a great resource!

[chrisso]

London isn't great for used kits, other than Drumshack.
I browsed EbayUK last night and there were plenty of sub-£1000 studio ready kits, Sonor, Hayman, Ludwig, Yamaha etc........

[primemeat64]

Originally Posted by chrisso

London isn't great for used kits, other than Drumshack.
I browsed EbayUK last night and there were plenty of sub-£1000 studio ready kits, Sonor, Hayman, Ludwig, Yamaha etc........

Thanks for the heads up - it doesnt matter too much how far away the kit is if its worth it in petrol money...

The plan is:

get reccommended kits, and places to get them (new + used)

try kits out (unless a bargain is observed at said places)

find one of the kits i liked and buy it!

[worm]

andy's drums on denmark street is ok for second hand but a little pricey. great selection of old snares tho. might as well pop in on your rounds. its bang in the centre.

[primemeat64]

To all subscribed / interested:-

Thank everybody who gave me advise on getting my kit - I've now got the lot and it works out like this:

1987 Pearl BLX (inc new logo head + 2 double braced stands + LeBlonde cases)_£640
<12x10T, 13x11T, 16x16FT, 22x16BD with riser>
1979 Ludwig Black Beauty 14x5 (inc Hardcase case)_____________________£250
Black Beauty throw + repair cost + emperor___________________________£50
13'' Zildjian A Mastersound hi-hats__________________________________£140
15'' Zildjian K Custom Dark Crash___________________________________£80
16'' Zildjian A Custom Crash_______________________________________£80
20'' Zildjian K Custom Ride________________________________________£120
Hardcase Cymbal Case___________________________________________£20
Iron Cobra HH905______________________________________________£154
DW5000AD3__________________________________________________£126
Mapex throne + 1 double braced stand_______________________________£105
Mapex snare stand______________________________________________£33
Hardcase Replacement Straps______________________________________£10

Total Kit______________________________________________________£640
Total Snare____________________________________________________£300
Total Cymbals__________________________________________________£420
Total Hardware_________________________________________________£448

Grand Total___________________________________________________£1808


The Black Beauty needed a new throw because the old one wouldn't hold the snares... got wembley drum to fix it up nice for me and throw on an emperor on top... oh and apparently belonged to Mel Gaynor of Simple Minds and then Placebo (who used it to record their debut album)... And what a freaking bargain it was...

I got the kit from a drum shop - the bass drum front head has got a medium sized sound hole - I asked the drum shop to throw in a couple of stands which they did, and also a new pearl logo head (without hole) - so that I've got flexibility I guess... I also got the throne and additional stand from there (even tho its a mapex throne, it's aparantly a good one...)

A little over budget I know but I understand that you need to fork out a bit to get results!

btw here's a pic of the BLX: