panning a spaced pair OH - phase problems

[Dirck]

Hi,

... I'd like to know your experiences with the panning of a spaced pair of mics as OH's.
If they're summed to mono, you can hear the sound thin out.
Do phase problems also start to rise with less panning (eg. 8 and 4 o' clock) in a spaced pair ?? Any theory about that?

[worm]

As a general rule of thumb, two mics recording the same sound source should be the exact same distance to that sound source when you're trying to achieve a phase-coherent, mono-compatible, stereo spread.

[sonicdefault]

Narrowing a stereo source is perfectly fine as long as it sounds natural
(unless you're going for an effect). There's a certain threshold when panning a stereo source inward, that things do start to sound honky. If you're having trouble finding the sweet spot, it probably means the mics weren't positioned well, or perhaps you're hearing ambient effects of the room. Just trust your ears and remember that phase isn't always a bad thing, as it occurs in the real world. The key is creating a mix that sounds natural and doesn't distract the listener.


-SD

[joeq]

you can use a string or a yardstick to place your spaced overheads the exact same distance from the snare drum. that will keep the snare in the middle and in phase, though of course other drums may still be out of phase.

in fact, without the measuring thing, I would just as soon use an XY on overheads.

I have on occasion used TWO strings: one taped to the center of the snare and one taped to the center of the kick and gotten kick and snare centered this way, but it severely limits where you can place the mics as they can only be in locations where both strings are taut. These locations often seem to be in the way of flying drumsticks and so on.

[primemeat64]

I've always wondered how much movement equates to how much phase diferential - does it equate to the length of each wave cycle of the sound source? - how much movement in cm makes how much difference to phase on snare for instance?

[heisleyamor]

I pan my overheads depending on how many items are taking up my stereo spread (guitar, reverb, any room mics, back up vocals) ... If there are a lot of items in your track then try not to pan out your OHs as much. Like sonicdefault just use your ears till everything is balanced and how you want it to sound

[6dyslexicelephnt]

like people have said, it's good to check the distance from the snare

the recorderman set up is sort of in super phase because it's aligned with the kick and the snare

I can't think of an end consumer listening on a mono playback system... maybe you recorded in stereo and you decided you want a mono OH? you should zoom in on your OH waveforms to see what's happening

[fooman]

I've done both the string method and the using-my-ears method when micing overheads. I usually get better results using my ears. I imagine a line down the center of the snare and kick, usually it's diagonal a bit... and then I start positioning my mics around this line. It works out because the kick and snare are usually panned up the middle so everything else balances out.

[sleeps]

Originally Posted by fooman

I imagine a line down the center of the snare and kick, usually it's diagonal a bit... and then I start positioning my mics around this line.

I have seen guys do this before (okay, maybe I have done it as well!) and it has always provided strange results. Perhaps your technique isn't as extreme as what I've seen though!

From what I have seen and tried; imagine a line from where the beater meets the kick head to the center of the snare. Sitting in the drummers throne, this puts one mic in front, a little to the right of the first tom and the second mic in back, a little to the left of the floor tom. Indeed, it does put the kick and snare up the middle! However, being that one mic is more in front, and one is more in back, that puts the polarity of the kick nearly opposite to each mic! The back mic tends to first receive a rarefaction while the front mic tends to receive a compression.

This might not be the case on EVERY kit, depending on how the drummer sets up his kit. However, in my earlier days, I tried this technique a few times. The kick's image was always very skewed, and nearly always thinned out completely in mono.

Thank goodness I don't like the way a wide spaced pair sounds on a drum kit; I've preferred XY for many years!

[fooman]

My technique isn't as intense as that. I don't put the mics up on the line, I put them up in their respective halves of the spectrum, simply using the line as a guide to keep the kick/snare down the middle. It seems to work for me, depending on the kit layout and the style of drum sounds that needs to be achieved.

[tenchijin2]

Originally Posted by fooman

My technique isn't as intense as that. I don't put the mics up on the line, I put them up in their respective halves of the spectrum, simply using the line as a guide to keep the kick/snare down the middle. It seems to work for me, depending on the kit layout and the style of drum sounds that needs to be achieved.

I do precisely the same thing, and it works fabulously for me.