Cymbal recommendations

[Dragonfly]

Hey guys,

I was looking for some recommendations on cymbals. It's about that time where the ones I use the most in my studio need replacing. I'm a hobbyist drummer, guitar and piano are what I do best, so I'm not exactly sure what I should be looking for. Being played on the kit is most rock; punk, progressive, and metal is usually what the kit is used for, so what should I look for in cymbals as far as Brand, Thickness, Resonance, Durability, and Price go? They are used solely in the studio so my biggest concern is tone quality. Oh, and I'm looking to replace all but the ride, she's still soundin great.

Thanks guys

[ixnys]

I'm really into the Paiste cymbals. Zildjians have sounded to big and gongy to me before when recording.

BEST advice is to go to guitar center and try out all the different cymbals. Take the ones you feel are the best home and try them all out...return what doesn't work for you. That's really the best way. Because as you know, things WILL sound different there and when you record them at your place.

[kittonian]

The Zildjian cymbals are really nice for recording and were used on the last Nada Surf album for every track.

Here's the specs on that record:

14" A Custom hi hats
16" K custom dark crash
18" K custom dark crash
22" A custom ping ride

Just my preference of course but I love em.

[brownmouse]

i'm a zildjian guy... paiste has seemed a bit more 'harsh' for my applications. i currently am using
13" a custom hats
15" a custom thin crash
17" a custom thin crash
20" a custom medium ride
i am waiting to try out some of the 'fast crashes' as well....
joshua

I will second "A" customs!

It is one of the few series I feel that everyone
of them tracks nicely.

I tend to favor thins and mediums.

A 16 "Z" custom crash is nice for a heavy rock thing.

Crashes bigger than 16 get weird to me.

D

[drummerman15]

A Customs or K Customs are the best for recording in my book. Stick with the thinner cymbals for recording. Try 13" hi-hats - real nice.

[joeq]

I too favor Zildjians. The thing to remember about them is that no two are alike- Don't go by weight or diameter- you really have to hit them (in the store and hopefully at home) to know what they sound like.



For example, when I had to replace a 16" medium crash that had cracked, I ended up with an 18" crash/ride- it just sounded more like my old cymbal than any of the 16s in the store

[NathanEldred]

Zildjian A's.

[scotty-o]

Another vote for the tried and true Zildjian A's.

It's rock and roll, baby!

I have a set of 40 (yes, 40) year old Zildjian hats that you'll have to pry from my cold, dead hands. They're smooth as silk.

-Scotty

[Drumsound]

First suggestion: Don't get rid of your old cymbals. You'll look for a sound you know at some point and kick yourself when you realize you sold it.

Next, don't listen to cymbals on the display walls. Being so close to the wall makes them sound weird. Put them on stands and them play them with a drum-set.

Third get thin hats. They are easier to control from engineering and playing point of view. Check out the new Steve Gadd model. Way Cool!

A Custom and K Custom are nice. They are thinner that their regular counterparts. All the cymbal makers seem to make cymbals thinker than they used to. Thick cymbals (except rides) tend to sound bad IMNSHO. Don't rule out used either. Some of the "vintage" type things sound cool. They usually are based on older (thinner?) cymbals.

Also, walk around the room while someone else plays and listen to how they sound. Bring a friend with trusted ears, and a drummer with good ears.

[the dice]

.... and a drummer with good ears.

a what?

[chrisso]

If you're after durability and you play punk or metal I wouldn't choose Paiste.
If you're on a budget I wouldn't buy new at Guitar Centre either.
60's and 70's Zildjian A's are the real deal and often very reasonably priced on Ebay. That would be my top tip.
I haven't played any Sabians, but they are even cheaper (used on Ebay).
The good thing is you can hear soundfiles of each model on the Sabian website.

[hourglass]

I'll throw down the first recommendation for Sabian.

Thin hats & thin crashes are right on the money as far as I'm concerned.

If the drummer is willing, a step down in all the sizes works wonders at keeping the cymbal sound tight and focused.

I've got a set of 12" Sabian mini-hats which get a lot of work, 14" & 16" AAX Extra-Thin crashes, and two teeny HHX splash/trash cymbals. I try to talk the drummer into swapping out right away, but they usually wanna hear their stuff first.

So we do a take, then make the switch. Rarely do they get switched back.

The only rule-breaker is the ride cymbal -- a 26" AA Metal Ride. It's big and just sits there no matter how hard you pound on it. Doesn't get that sloshing motion EVER.

Another nice touch is the "El Sabor" ride. It's around 22" with an unlathed bell, typical ride sound on the bow, and more of a thinner crash feel on the edge.

And recently, a drummer I've been working with brought in the new Neil Peart signature hats - I think they're called "Paragons" or something... They're nice and thin and sound amazing - especially compared to the old Paiste Rude hats he used to play.

ryan

[LTA]

Originally posted by chrisso
If you're after durability and you play punk or metal I wouldn't choose Paiste.

RUDEs can't hold up to heavy bashing?

Now for my generic suggestion: 14" hats, 15 and 17 inch medium thin crashes, and a 20" medium ride. Brand doesn't matter, as long as you play with them at the store together before you buy to see if they get along together, relatively speaking.

[chrisso]

Yeah, but Rude's sound god awful. I wouldn't put them in the same class as a generic Paiste cymbal.
Rudes are only for bashers.

[Joe Jacob]

Ziljian A-Customs!!! Yeah!.

[bloodsweatfire]

Sabian HH series.

I have both Ziljian and Sabian. I am fond of both but the Sabian HH series have a certain organic quality that is so rich and musical.
They aren't cheap but they sound terrific.

[macr0w]

I used to use Zildjian but over the years I've acquired alot of Sabian's. I have been using my ear instead of going for a name. The AAX seires is killer. It would also pay for you to check out the Wuhan china's. those are the bomb.I've got two of them,one 12" and one 17". Listen carefully and find a good one though.

[DClarkson2004]

Zildjian K-or A!
I used to play Paiste, but after a while of some serious hitting, even with the right technique, they crack at the bell....always!
Never had that with Zildjians; they don't crack but bend!
As for the sound, I think Zildjian has more character and timbre.
As someone here already said, you have to hit these babies hard indeed to get the character!

[joeq]

Originally posted by macr0w
I have been using my ear instead of going for a name.

excellent point

When I first was studying drums, Zildjian had an advertising slogan "there's Zildjian and there's everything else" and it was almost true. (A local store had a garbage pail lid hanging on the wall with a sign "cheaper? YES. Zildjian? NO!")

I have always been a Zildjian guy all the way, but I must admit that nowadays there are some companies out there making some great sounding cymbals. Next time I am cymbal shopping I will at least try some cymbals from the "everything else" category.

I will probably still end up with a Zildjian because of "symphonic" considerations: I have always felt that all your cymbals need to "work together", to match in some sense. I worry that it would be like substituting a Gretch tom in an otherwise Ludwig kit.

But I am going to try to be open to it.

[craigdouglas]

Paiste !!! they have a decay that none can match. if you go to guitar center... buy the cymb. warrenty its like 20 bucks a cymb. for a few years.. so if they break.......just replace it

[aaronsternke]

As others have said, it depends on what kind of sound you're going for of course... here are some general things that I have found...

Zildjian A's - Rock and roll cymbals. By far the most popular, most widely used, most heard on records sound. Very safe bet.

Zildjian A Custom's - More shimmery, thinner than A's. Fast attack. I find that these differ from one another quite a bit... search around for the best sounding to your ears. These record well for general pop/rock use. Not too loud.

Zildjian K's - Darker, more complex character than A series. Slower attack... maybe more body, depending on what size you get. Very nice sounding, but very specific sounding cymbals.

Zildjian K Custom's - Thinner than K's... Gorgeous sounding. I have the 20" K Custom Dark ride... hitting that thing is one of my favorite things to do. It doesn't have ONE sound... it has hundreds of sounds depending on where you hit it, how hard, etc... Very complex, full of character. Also quite a specific sound.

Zildjian Z Custom - The thickest, loudest cymbals you can buy. Boy, these are loud. Too loud IMO for most recording applications... but heck, try them. Most of them are just too darn loud and raunchy sounding to my ears.


Sabian also makes some great cymbals... my favorites are the El Sabor series... (kind of like Zildian K's) and the HHX series (kind of like A customs, especially the HHX Evolution series). The HHX Evolution are the thinnest cymbals I have ever played. I'd be a little worried that they'd break... but I've never personally owned them so who knows.

One thing you should also know is that Zildjian and Sabian cymbals are all spun, or CAST cymbals (except their cheap beginner series), while most all Paiste cymbals are CUT.. like from a larger sheet. The casting process makes Zildjians and Sabians sound the way they do, and also makes them incredibly strong. If you notice, most Paiste cymbals have lots of hammering, gilding, etching in their designs. This is to get their specific sound... You should know that in most cases CUT cymbals are not nearly as durable as CAST cymbals. Something to consider when making a purchase.

Hope you find something you love. Enjoy your search.

Aaron Sternke

[chadly]

K Custom 17 inch crash. Good general crash thats not too bright yet still there. Good decay and good attack.

[naturalstudio]

Hi,

Just thought I'd add something...

Reading this post you'd get the impression that there were only 3 cymbal brands. Might I throw in a few curveballs:

UFIP cymbals record VERY well. The sound is easy to control and they have great dynamics. The UFIP splashes, in particular, are class leading. They have some great dark crashes too and the range is from vintage sounding right up to sheeny modern. UFIP got quite a bad rap for a while as they started machine making their cymbals. They've gone back to good old fashioned hand made stuff from start to finish so you get a unique cymbal. It looks like they might be stopping this again, so get them while you can.

Also - Meinl. The one-of-a-kind series are definitely worth looking out for. As are some of their rides and smaller hats.

Also - Istanbul. These are great if you are after a lighter, jazzier sound.

Douglas.

[aaronsternke]

Good call naturalstudio, on the UFIP splashes. Nothing like them.

Aaron Sternke

[drumdude]

I've been with Sabian for quite a while so maybe I;m a bit biased... but the HHX Evolution series record wonderfuly!!
Many have suggested Zildjian A custom which I'd have to say record great as well!!
Sabian recently sent me out a pair of 15 inch HHX groove hi hats which worked GREAT on a recent session!!...very Bonzo!!

[not_so_new]

Another vote for HHX Evolution.. I have an HHX ride and I love it!!! I heard an HHX crash the other day at banjo mart and the thing was by far the best sounding cymbal in the joint. A friend of mine was there and he agreed it was the best thing they had including a large assortment of A's, A Custom's, Z's what have you. Very nice indeed.

On a side note, I have never gotten a good sounding recording from light / thin hats, crashes, rides, anything. They might sound good in a room but there is something about all that high end energy in the mix that creates a "haze" in the top that I hate.

Your mileage may vary but for me dark, thicker cymbals are the only way to go in the studio. K's or K darks A's but not Custom's (little thin for me). The trade off is the darker cymbals tend to be slower (I can live with that) and tend to be louder (and that is the biggest problem in my book). As to the latter, loud cymbals take a better drumemr to control. If I had a quarter for each time I have told a drummer "play the snare harder and the hats lighter" I would have.... oh about $5.25 now.....

What do I know, I am a guitarist anyway...

[enharmonic]

Something about Zildjians just do it for me. I like the way they record. I especially like K's and A's.

Sometimes a Paiste will suprose me though...but generally I don't care for most of what I've heard out of them. The 2002's are cool though.

[Ted Nightshade]

Nothing like an old hand-lathed Zildjian A, for rock type music. Very inconsistent- they all sound completely different, many sound like junk, not quite as many sound divine.

I would buy 20 Zildjian A's off ebay for cheap, and sell 15 of them. Then again you might get lucky and get a beauty on your first try. It's worth shopping these- if nothing else, every drummer should have the experience.

FWIW, I have maybe 10 of these... out of how many I once owned? Thank god I didn't sell some of the ones I've tried to sell.

I also own vintage Zildjian Istanbul K's, vintage Paiste 602, new and divine Spizzichino, generic old china's- but for rock you'd be stylin' with some choice old 70's A's.

[cajonezzz]

heck, everyone of the big guys are making great cymbals nowadays (although i have been disappointed with Zildjian quality control.

i'd say in general, go with thin cymbals when recording. there is no "right cymbal" use what you like.

I've still got a set of Paiste "color sound" cymbals, pure shit....I love em, for some stuff. really dark,muted and trashy.

I'm digging the Sabian evolution stuff lately.
and Bosphorus....
and Turkish
and I LOVE my paiste Sound formula's on live gigs
Love the consistency and 'sheen' of paiste sig series.
zil A customs, generally nice. feel great.
zil 'remix" series fun

Only cymbals I haven't really used that killed me were Meinel.... but I have friend/endorser that swears by em.

Just hit em and decide.