Cymbals

[Froombosch]

hiya all!

I am looking (as a non drummer) for a good new set of cymbals for my studio drumsetup. I have a mapex kit in the studio for the people whose kits are far worse. So i am also looking for a good alround cymbal set for those bands who do not have a decent one. What would you choose for alround recording work?? Most of the time we record rock/blues.


Harrie

[TheArchitect]

For Pop/Rock I would choose a Zildjian Armand 21" Ride for the ride. Take your pick for crashes 16 and 18" K Darks or 16 and 18" Armand Medium thins. For Hats I like 14"k's or 14" A customs. If its metal stuff you may consider the Z series instead


A lot really depends on what style you typically record and how high durability rates in the buying decision

[nandoanalog]

A good drummer will make any cymbal sound good. A bad drummer will sound like crap no matter what gear he will play.

If you gonna record ppl who dont own proper gear, then you are dealing with ppl who are not passionate enough to their instrument.

[GravityRobert]

Originally Posted by nandoanalog

A good drummer will make any cymbal sound good. A bad drummer will sound like crap no matter what gear he will play.

I'm sick and tired of hearing this junk. If you play a paiste 101 brass piece of crap manhole cover you can't expect somebody to give their all on it. My cymbals are my Les Paul's, Schimmel's and Neves. Same with my drums, this might seem a little odd to you but theres different characteristics to every drum/drumhead . If I hear another guy telling me I should be able to do the same stuff on somebody else's kit as I do on my own I'm gonna go postal tutt

To the matter at hand: what cymbals? Get something like Sabian AA/AAX, Zildjian A Custom or Paiste Signature; these will suit most of your uses fine. However, unless you make enough of a session, dont throw in cymbals for free because these things WILL crack eventually (unless the drummer plays with brushes or something)

[Vogon]

+1

Originally Posted by nandoanalog

A good drummer will make any cymbal sound good.

Ergo: No point in a good drummer having good cymbals then...
This is somewhat at odds with your second assertion:

If you gonna record ppl who dont own proper gear, then you are dealing with ppl who are not passionate enough to their instrument.

Could be they can't yet afford "propper" gear, but...
Welcome to recording.

[scrubs]

If you're looking for a "set" that will be fairly versatile, I think Zildjian sells an A Custom set. They're pretty bright and fast.

Otherwise, I think it's far better to build a set from individual cymbals that you like, rather than all from the same brand/line.

[spish]

Originally Posted by nandoanalog

A good drummer will make any cymbal sound good. A bad drummer will sound like crap no matter what gear he will play.

If you gonna record ppl who dont own proper gear, then you are dealing with ppl who are not passionate enough to their instrument.

what?

wow, those are two incredibly myopic and ignorant statements.

to answer the question -- I'd agree with the Sabian AAX recommendation. I'm also a big fan of Paiste's 2002 series. I have both and gravitate to the 2002's for live and the AAX for the studio, but that's a sound preference. They both record very well IMHO.

But, according to nandoanalog, if you have a set of Sabian B8's and a good drummer supposedly those B8's can sound like cymbals 5 times their price.

cheers,

-s

[gevermil]

I hate when guys use their face as an avatar

[jbjoubaud]

Originally Posted by gevermil

I hate when guys use their face as an avatar

Oh yeah?! Well bite my shiny metal ass!!!


(don't know about the cymb though... so I'll just end my post here before I make some bs statement...)

[lynyrd]

I personally think of the Zildjian line, my A customs record the best. Not too thick, they sound generally better than my heavier Zildjians. I also have a Wuhan China cymbal that absolutely rules when recorded. And they are cheap too.

[nandoanalog]

I guess ppl understood my post in a rly rly wrong way.

My point was: A good drummer will make a drum sound good no matter what drum it is (if you don`t agree with this, then my friend, you rly don`t know a thing about drumming). And if the drummer you record, by any means is very poor, and can`t afford pro gear, then don`t worry too much about buying uber expensive cymbals because if he is good, he will most likely make any cymbal sound good. But if he sucks, he will suck on a $5k cymbal set too.

And my other point was: If you need to buy gear for drummers to play because they dont have their own gear, then you are dealing with ppl who don`t care about their instruments. Because drums, cymbals, skins, tuning, sticks etc, are very personal things. And each musician should own the gear they like to use.



Now, you ppl, stop being ********, and read other ppl posts correctly before you make stupid statements that in the end will make you look dumb.
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On the other hand, if you gonna buy some cymbals, Zildjian A Custom are good all around options. Zildjian K "may" be even better.. Sabian may be even cheaper. But they are a diferent cymbal flavor (that you might preffer).
My advice, get to know a good drummer (and I mean a rly good one) and ask him for advice. Not on a forum. Meet him in person, ask him to go to the music shop with you, and let him choose a few cymbals for you. Then when you have an idea about how a cymbal should sound, you may go to the store by yourself and buy cymbal by cymbal, one at a time, with patience. In a few weeks, months, whatever, you will have a neat cymbal set.

[GravityRobert]

You basically said the exact same thing with more words. Your opinion still sucks

Now we're the fools? Sure thing, honey

[TheArchitect]

Originally Posted by nandoanalog

I guess ppl understood my post in a rly rly wrong way.

My point was: A good drummer will make a drum sound good no matter what drum it is (if you don`t agree with this, then my friend, you rly don`t know a thing about drumming). And if the drummer you record, by any means is very poor, and can`t afford pro gear, then don`t worry too much about buying uber expensive cymbals because if he is good, he will most likely make any cymbal sound good. But if he sucks, he will suck on a $5k cymbal set too.

And my other point was: If you need to buy gear for drummers to play because they dont have their own gear, then you are dealing with ppl who don`t care about their instruments. Because drums, cymbals, skins, tuning, sticks etc, are very personal things. And each musician should own the gear they like to use.



Now, you ppl, stop being ********, and read other ppl posts correctly before you make stupid statements that in the end will make you look dumb.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On the other hand, if you gonna buy some cymbals, Zildjian A Custom are good all around options. Zildjian K "may" be even better.. Sabian may be even cheaper. But they are a diferent cymbal flavor (that you might preffer).
My advice, get to know a good drummer (and I mean a rly good one) and ask him for advice. Not on a forum. Meet him in person, ask him to go to the music shop with you, and let him choose a few cymbals for you. Then when you have an idea about how a cymbal should sound, you may go to the store by yourself and buy cymbal by cymbal, one at a time, with patience. In a few weeks, months, whatever, you will have a neat cymbal set.

I am a drummer, and I can tell you that beyond a certain quality point, a skilled drummer can indeed make anything sound good. Cymbals that are below that point however cannot be saved by even the most skilled player. Yes, a skilled player can make a basic set of Zildjian A's work. They won't be able to do much with a set of Scimitar or B8's though

[Vogon]

Originally Posted by nandoanalog

Now, you ppl, stop being ********, and read other ppl posts correctly before you make stupid statements that in the end will make you look dumb.

Sorry to say it, but your post came across as priggish and naive. The recording and music worlds are way too complex to have watertight simplistic "laws" to govern how one operates. People here have just seen it all before.
Insulting people is no way to get to be taken more seriously.

[Clayphish]

I' gonna go against most everyone on this thread when I tell you to skip the A Customs. Yes they sound fantastic (I own a 18 inch A custom crash and used to own a 20 inch A custom ride), but they're fairly thin. So if you're going to be letting other people use them, there is a good chance they won't stand up to a lot of beating over time. From what I have noticed, most drummers (unless they've been playing for more then 5 years) don't know how to hit cymbals properly. They'll hack and hack at the edges until the cymbal basically gives out and cracks. So if I was in your situation I'd probably get medium cymbals. Maybe Zildjian A's or whatever fits in the Sabian AA line up.

[Froombosch]

Thank you all for the replies...
I guess i'll got for the medium set. Like the AA Sabian stuff.

[Blue Bongo]

I hope I don't start an arguement as I am aware my knowledge is somewhat limited in this area, but you may want to consider the Sabian
"Pro Sonix" series. They were designed more specifically for recording purposes. I have a set of Slingerlands for my humble home studio. I had Custom A's all around and recently switched them for the "Pro Sonix" series. Crisp, clean, but certainly not as loud or resonating as the A's.
At least for my situation, it was a good swap. They are priced a bit below the AA Sabians or the A custom for that matter. You can find some great deals (as I have) on E-Bay. Most of the time, drummers are going to have their own cymbals. But, let's be honest. If you have a drum set around, you got to have some cymbals. If you find the drummer cymbals aren't recording well, the "Pro Sonix" might be a nice option to have.
Blue Bongo

[nandoanalog]

Originally Posted by Froombosch

Thank you all for the replies...
I guess i'll got for the medium set. Like the AA Sabian stuff.

Problem is that medium cymbals may sound a bit shitty... mmmm , not rly shitty, but more like "not so good to record". But again, if the drummer is good, he will make it sound as good as possible, if he sucks, he will suck on whatever cymbal he plays.

[tigeba]

I feel I got great results by upgrading my cymbals on my studio kit (DW Collector). I picked up:

15" A Custom Crash
18" A Custom Fast Crash
22" K Dark Ride (I believe its the Cindy Blackman model)

The 15" and 18" have a nice shimmer and get out of the way quickly, unlike my older heavier cymbals.

[Horsemouth]

IMHO No one is making cooler cymbals right now then Zildjian with their K line, especially for the price. Some of them have limited applications, especially the super dark and super dry one's, but they are the only cymbals I feel like are being made by serious drummers of the big cymbal companies. Boutique companies like Bosphorous and Istanbul make amazing (and expensive) cymbals, but are mostly aimed at seriously trained drummers.

To the guy who said drums and cymbal quality don't matter, only the skill of the drummer does...that is a somewhat valid point of view, but everything else you said leads me to believe you sound like a very frustrated artist/engineer. I'm sorry for that, but leave your anger for the bartender or post it in the rants and raves section of this site.

[sleeps]

Originally Posted by nandoanalog

If you need to buy gear for drummers to play because they dont have their own gear, then you are dealing with ppl who don`t care about their instruments. Because drums, cymbals, skins, tuning, sticks etc, are very personal things. And each musician should own the gear they like to use.

What if they own their own gear but it isn't good enough? The majority of the drummers I deal with end up tracking with my drum gear (and no, I am not a drummer) either because they can't afford the stuff that I have available or they are not as picky as I am about the gear I choose.

To the original poster ... listen to records that you like. Pay attention to the pitch of the hi hats, rides, and crashes. Listen to how much sustain they have and how "washy" they are. Then listen to how these pitches and tones change through out songs. We are switching out rides, snares, and hats all the time to fit certain vibes. If you are looking for an "all purpose" set, listen to them all and try to find a happy medium! My favorites are Zildjian K's (however, not ALL of them sound good, they all sound different).

[jsox2409]

well it really depends on the style of music u track the majority of the time.

if its pop or country or similar to it. id say go with:

Paiste sig. series 14" sound edge hats or paiste 2002 series medium lite hats.

paiste sig series 17" fast crash 18" mellow crash, 16" full crash

paiste 20" dry heavy ride sig. series or heavy dark dry ride

splashes: i use a 10" wuhan when tracking.. dont laugh yeah it costs like 30 bucks but it sounds great on tape.

or u can spend like 155 and get a paiste sig 10"

for more agressive rock stuff.. id go with zildjian A & K series stuff like a 17" dark crash and 18" dark crash with new beat hats or A custom mastersound hats. im not a huge fan of zildjian rides though


to sum it up.. zildjians cost less thatn paiste and either is good but im a paiste man myself

[HeavyG]

...cymbals are similar to guitars in terms of their personalities. Do you like Les Pauls, Strats, Teles, SGs...? Do you like Bonhams huge crashes (2002 and Giant Beat)? Do you like Gadds unique, dark textures (Zildjian K Custom)?

I would say have a nice well rounded mix...make sure your Ride and Hi Hat are from a more flexible design line (like A Custom or Paiste Signature)...since they will need to be able to support alot of genres (blues, pop/rock, jazz, etc. ) Nothing sounds worse in the mix than a guy playing a delicate swing jazz groove on a 24" Paiste 2002 Power Ride. You can add some unique flavors on the crashes and accent cymbals...like a K Custom Dark Crash, Saluda Earthworks or a big Paiste 2002. Again...focus on a flexible core (hi hat and ride)...and build out from there.

Tear it up...

Peace