newbie drum setup for recording... help me not look stupid!!

[6dyslexicelephnt]

Hi I'm going to be recording a band for money and I've read a bunch about drum micing but I've never actually done it. I don't want to jump in there putting mics up and be so far off it takes me all day and I look like an amateur. I was wondering if you guys could help me out so that I have a head start and can tweak mic positions from there to get a better sound.

OHs: Oktava MK-012s
KD: Shure Beta 52
Snare, HH, toms: SM 57s
Room Mic: Oktavamod MK-319

Drum set: Gretsch Catalina Ash drum set (I think) with a big kick drum (16x22?) without a hole in the outside head.

I also have an AT 3035 and 4033 and an ART Pro VLA as well as some decent EQs. I would like to somehow get my mics down to 4 mics so I could record it on my 4 track because I dig the sound. Is this an OK drum set up?

Okay I know I know it is a delicate art and it depends on the room (which is decent sounding sheetrock with sound channels and some egg carton foam) and it's a matter of preference etc. but I'm just trying to not look like a fool on this one. I like big drum sounds, I like analog drum machine sounds, I like natural room reverb or spring reverb (and plate reverb if I had it). I would be fine with just using 2 mics if you guys knew of a great sound you got with only 2 of these mics that I have. I'd prefer to use my outboard compressor because I like working outside of the box as much as possible. I was also considering maybe just the beta 52 on KD, an SM 57 on snare, and the mono OH (MK319) adjusted for a good mix between the cymbals and the HH. What should I use my 2 ch of compression on... the kick and the snare or the stereo bus of the drum track? I can fix stuff in logic if it's not perfect.

Please just let me know the first thing that comes to mind for a solid drum sound. The band I'm recording is an indie pop with a sorta lofi analog spring reverby kind of sound. Any help would be much appreciated.

[moracspace]

An excellent drum recording can be obtained with just 2 mics.Do a search for recordingman drum mic set up.

[emkay]

but a great drummer behind a great well tuned kit in a shitty room will still sound good--a shitty drummer behind a shitty and poorly tuned set of drums in a shitty room will sound shitty---a shitty drummer behind a shitty and poorly tuned set of drums in a good room will sound like a good recording of a shitty drummer----after that the mics (yours aren't too bad) have to be properly placed and that will come with experimentation depending on your room-----the mic pres are the next consideration and should be able to capture fast transients.........most importantly use your ears and instincts and keep your mind open------at worst this will be a learning experience, at best, you might get a recording you'll be happy with..........I'm a professional drummer and have been behind more mic combos than I can even count....from one U87 for the whole kit, to 4 mics for one bass drum all the way up to 16 mics not including the room mics!! Yeah, I guess some guys have formulae that work for them if they always work in one room ,and there are some rules of thumb, but none of them in my experience are gospel! There are so many variables, but I can tell you, one of my favourite drum recordings recently was done with only 4 mics like yourself (2-Rode NT5's?, one AKG D112, and an SM 57 . The 57 was mounted on a drum clamp at about a 45 degree angle about one inch over the head, the D112 was slightly (one or two inches) into the kick through a 6 inch hole in the front head and the NT 5's were over and behind me "hovering" over the drums between me and the toms about two feet away from the cymbals if that makes sense to you. It was my DW kit (rack tom, floor tom ,kick, snare, ride and two crashes). I think it was a combo of the kit, the room and some luck,,,,,,anyways,,,gotta go,,,hope this rant helped....good luck and have fun....it's music...it won't bite you.......peace

[6dyslexicelephnt]

I got some good sounds with a pretty typical set up. Fortunately the room is decent sounding and so is the kit. I set up the drums before the came because I was nervous and everything came out sounding pretty awesome!!!

I used a Beta 52 on the BD, SM57 on snare, mk-012s on OHs. The cymbals were a bit thin sounding so I think I'm going to mic them closer next time.

I have two questions...
1. To be able to hear the bass drum on laptop speakers, I had to put a little bump in the lower mids on the EQ for the bass drum. It was a balancing act to make the the BD sound good on my HR824s, computer speakers, and laptop speakers. Any tips for making the bass drum audible on bass deprived systems? Or should I just say, screw em - they should buy a better system. And where do I draw the line - $5 computer speakers get BD but laptop speakers do not? It seems like the more I tailor the BD for better systems, the better it will sound on nice systems but may become invisible or muffled sounding on others.

2. The cymbals felt a little thin. The OHs were about 3 ft. away. I'm thinking about moving them closer maybe 1 or 1.5 feet. I don't think they were thin sounding because of phase problems. But before I assume - what do phase problems sound like? Can anyone tell me past "thin and bad sounding." What's the best way to avoid them on drums?