Question about API 3124+, Fireface 800, and ATTY

[PBenz]

Hi All,

Up until today, I've been recording drums directly into my FireFace 800, but after reading all the positive posts on API 3124+ preamp, I thought I'd pick one up. Since the API didn't come with a manual, and since I'm not a professional, I was hoping the experts out there could chime in and validate that what I'm doing is correct, and perhaps give me a few suggestions for how to get the most out of this rather expensive (for me) piece of gear.

On the FireFace, I had been running the kick (Audix D6), snare (SM57), and overheads (AKG 414) into the preamps on the front, and the toms into the inputs on the rear. After recording a sample with the FF, I then ran the kick, snare and OHs into the API, and then out into the back of the FF. Forget the tom mics for now.

When I first switched the API on, I was amazed at how much signal was being delivered to the FF. I had been running the FF inputs at -10dBV, but with the API I've engaged the "Lo Gain" setting. In order to not clip the inputs on the FF, I've had to engage the Pad switch on the API. Under this arrangement, I cannot hear a difference in the kick & snare tracks between the FF and the API, but the OHs definitely have a bit more presence with the API. Just not $2400 worth, in my opinion.

Unless I'm missing something, I'm thinking that I might have to pick up a couple of those A-Designs ATTY devices. If I understand this correctly, if I installed that device between the API and the FF, it would allow me to crank up the gain on the API, possibly without having to engage the Pad switch. Would this give me that jaw-dropping "a-ha!" moment I was hoping to get? Any other thoughts? I just want to make sure I exercise all options before returning the API.

Cheers,

Paul

[Ahellam]

Get some in line xlr pads for the output or run em into something else outboard (eq/compressor) but just as a master volume.
done!

[majortom]

I think you should have the FF input set for +4. It should be expecting a high gain signal, not a low gain one. Lo gain, should make it worse.

Padding after the pre should give it that nice saturated API sound. You can also pad the mics (before the pre) if you want it to sound cleaner, which you're already doing.

I'd go ATTY, but if money is an issue you can buy inline pads of a set amount (-10, -20, -30db) for cheaper. They're less flexible of course, but cost like $25. So, if you know how much you want to cut you can get 2 for half the price of the ATTY. The ATTY is a variable attenuator, of course.

[PBenz]

Thanks very much for the replies. I've ordered a couple of ATTYs after trying a little experiment: I dug out a little Behringer mixer I forgot I had and put it between the API and the FF, and the results were exactly what I expected. Wow. I "get it" now.

[Jax]

You'd probably get more answers in another forum, like "So Much Gear So Little Time."

The "Drums" forum is more or less for talking about drums...

[PBenz]

That's OK - I think I have my answer. I figured since my question was specific to recording drums that this would be the correct place to post, but no big deal.

[hectc7]

I recently bought an API 3124 myself but will be running it with a digi 002. Hopefully I won't run through problems....WILL I?

[peeder]

I always run RME converters at Lo Gain for ADC and Hi Gain for DAC. The +4 settings are OK but aren't really studio level ime.

You can use attys or inline pads. However it's possible the ATTY will act as a highpass filter, so keep an eye on that. At least mine does.

[Nikbeat]

Hey I have the same problem here...I have a setup with the same gear for drum recording. the API 3124 is very Hot on the output so I set my Fireface to Lo Gain input which seem to solve the problem. I think running the signal through another desk defeats the purpose of having the nice APIs with a short clean signal path?
Does anyone know what the Lo Gain setting actually does on the fireface?
How much does it lower the signal?
Is it really worth getting som kind of pad on the output so it will work on +4db?
Problem with this is as you say you have the input gain fairly low. Does the Api change much in sound character if it has a hot input?

[worm]

Originally Posted by Nikbeat

Hey I have the same problem here...I have a setup with the same gear for drum recording. the API 3124 is very Hot on the output so I set my Fireface to Lo Gain input which seem to solve the problem. I think running the signal through another desk defeats the purpose of having the nice APIs with a short clean signal path?
Does anyone know what the Lo Gain setting actually does on the fireface?
How much does it lower the signal?
Is it really worth getting som kind of pad on the output so it will work on +4db?
Problem with this is as you say you have the input gain fairly low. Does the Api change much in sound character if it has a hot input?

a lot of people like to have the api clipping so it can impart some of its own nice distortion into the signal. this is why you need something on the other end to attenuate the output before you feed it into your soundcard. an atty or inline pad is useful here because it is passive and imparts no sound of its own (or at least thats the theory)

[dangoudie]

So, given that it's cheaper to by in-line pads, can people suggest a good value of attenuation which brings the signal down a usable level when the API itself is clipping? -10, -20 or -30dB?

[Cosmonauta]

I own and love API 3214, but after it´s popularization and hundreds of threads like this, I´m starting to think they should really include 4 inline pads in the package or at least advice user in "getting start" folder about the use of inline pads.
It really suck to discover that later after the purchase.

[dangoudie]

So what level of attenuation does you use?

Originally Posted by Cosmonauta

I own and love API 3214, but after it´s popularization and hundreds of threads like this, I´m starting to think they should really include 4 inline pads in the package or at least advice user in "getting start" folder about the use of inline pads.
It really suck to discover that later after the purchase.

[Cosmonauta]

25 db most times.

[dangoudie]

awesome, thanks for the reply cos.

So if you had the choice of -20 or -30 which would you go for?

[fededrum]

I just get a api 3124what is the yellow button at front (pod) for? I'm running the OH- the kick and snare How should i setup the front?

[Cosmonauta]

Originally Posted by fededrum

I just get a api 3124what is the yellow button at front (pod) for? I'm running the OH- the kick and snare How should i setup the front?

This is the polarity (phase) button.

[fededrum]

what is that for?

[Cosmonauta]

Flip the polarity. This is very basic and important fundamental in audio. I suggest you to read a good literature about the principles of audio recording. Worth a lot.

[gallerytungsten]

Here's a quick recipe for using that switch. Set up an open-backed guitar amp, and then mic both the front and back. Pick an exact spot on the speaker, and get the mics exactly the same distance from this spot. Run them both into the 3124 and flip the polarity on one channel. (Flip it back to hear the difference.)