Recording 'dry' drums

[DWINC]

Hello all,

I have a small question about the recording of drums, and I bet some of you can help me out with this.
When I record my drums in my studio (I have to say I am quite new with the recording of a drum kit) I can get a pretty good sound out of it with my audix/ superlux mics, although I know the superlux should be replaced when I can afford it. I was wondering though, how to get the 'dry' drum sound (especially the kick and snare) like in songs as Bloc Party's chart singles Helicopter (http://youtube.com/watch?v=2R6S5CJWlco ) or Banquet (http://youtube.com/watch?v=vdkmhquF6...elated&search=)

I really like this sound, but usually I record rock/ metal tracks for people and they dislike that dry sound to say the least

How can I obtain that kick and snare? Does it solely have to do with EQ'ing? I work with Logic Pro 7 and for the drums I use its EQ's, and I use my SSL Duende for compression and EQ. (and yes...I really have to check out the new SSL Drumstrip when I have the money ;) (oh...and I just found out that is has been delayed for two weeks....bummer..)

Many thanks! Hope you don't mind to get a drum technique recording question once and a while from me, could use the help!

Many thanks

[daryllh]

my perception of 'dry drums' is the lack of fx, not so much an eq thing. I could be wrong but when I try to get dry drums for bands, i try to get the drums in a smaller space.

packing blankets have become my best friend for this challenge. for our home, we bought 6 packing blankets (total of $140) and 20-1 inch spring clamps and hooks for the ceiling. Total cost of the DIY dry drum room- $167 bucks.

[daryllh]

I forgot to add...

your dry drum sound could be an actual drum dampening thing too. experiment with various tunings of drums along with something similar to the packing blankets thing.

[DWINC]

thanks for thinking along!
Dampening could be it, but the room is pretty good dampened already. I have a square room with thick walls (isolatio the normal ' studio way' ) and the last layer is carpet (maybe you can see it on www.thescorestudio.com a bit)

But how about the snare? How do you dampen that? I use MoonGel right now and that stuff is great, but well....I can't put 20 pieces of MoonGel on it I guess, would leave no space to hit the snare ;)

Thanks

[mute pink]

try a sheet or a thin blanket on top of the snare

[DWINC]

Originally Posted by mute pink

try a sheet or a thin blanket on top of the snare

really that simple? Hmmmm...worth the try tomorrow!

[chrisso]

I thought you wanted to get away from the dry, dampened sound - because the bands you record for don't like it.

If that's the case, you don't want to dry out the drums with any more padding, blankets or moongel. You probably need to liven up the room too.
A great drum sound for hard rock/metal is a full and open sound. The room sound features a lot. For that you need to position one or two mics away from the kit.
If it's a dry sounding room, nothing will help you though.

[DWINC]

Originally Posted by chrisso

I thought you wanted to get away from the dry, dampened sound - because the bands you record for don't like it.

If that's the case, you don't want to dry out the drums with any more padding, blankets or moongel. You probably need to liven up the room too.
A great drum sound for hard rock/metal is a full and open sound. The room sound features a lot. For that you need to position one or two mics away from the kit.
If it's a dry sounding room, nothing will help you though.

Hey Chrisso, No I WANT that dry sound, that is why I enclosed the two examples of Bloc Party. And the bands that record here are often rock/ metal, and they dislike that sound so I get away with it ;) But I want that dry sound for my own recordings, cos I like it :)

[Fleaman]

'Helicopter" drums are not dry! There is ambience, quite normal amounts to me (certainly not awash in reverb like '80's drums though). It's quite easy to hear for me, even with the other tracks blaring (gtrs, bass, vox, etc.).

The 2nd, "Banquet" has much dryer snare and kick, though the toms still have life in them.

If you are dealing with already recorded tracks and your close mic tracks are too ambient for you, try gating with a good gate or even better, use the SPL transient designer to shorten the sustain.

For recording 'dry' drums, dampen the drumheads with moongel, etc. For very dry, but muted sound, you could try thin sheets on top of the heads, but that will really mute the highs from the drums and they will not cut through anything with distorted gtr.

You mention you are already using moongel on the snare but it's still too live? Hmmm, how far away is your snare mic from the head? Also, once you put up the rest of the tracks (gtrs, bass, vox, etc.), that little bit of room ambience will disappear quickly in the mix. The denser the mix, the drier the drums will become.

[DWINC]

Originally Posted by Fleaman

'Helicopter" drums are not dry! There is ambience, quite normal amounts to me (certainly not awash in reverb like '80's drums though). It's quite easy to hear for me, even with the other tracks blaring (gtrs, bass, vox, etc.).

The 2nd, "Banquet" has much dryer snare and kick, though the toms still have life in them.

If you are dealing with already recorded tracks and your close mic tracks are too ambient for you, try gating with a good gate or even better, use the SPL transient designer to shorten the sustain.

For recording 'dry' drums, dampen the drumheads with moongel, etc. For very dry, but muted sound, you could try thin sheets on top of the heads, but that will really mute the highs from the drums and they will not cut through anything with distorted gtr.

You mention you are already using moongel on the snare but it's still too live? Hmmm, how far away is your snare mic from the head? Also, once you put up the rest of the tracks (gtrs, bass, vox, etc.), that little bit of room ambience will disappear quickly in the mix. The denser the mix, the drier the drums will become.

Hey Fleaman (nice avatar ) thanks for thinking along.
Yeah I use moongel, one on each tom, and 2 on the snare. It sounds really good, but I can't get that 'Banquet' sound. The top snare mic is like 10 cm away, and the bottom too. I have to say: they are cheap Superlux mics, Monday I will try out Audix mics on it. Cheers

[Fleaman]

Originally Posted by DWINC

Hey Fleaman (nice avatar ) thanks for thinking along.
Yeah I use moongel, one on each tom, and 2 on the snare. It sounds really good, but I can't get that 'Banquet' sound. The top snare mic is like 10 cm away, and the bottom too. I have to say: they are cheap Superlux mics, Monday I will try out Audix mics on it. Cheers

Tighten your snare wire tension...the tighter they are, the more muted/drier it becomes.

Also, use a dampened snare head, like an Evans genera dry vented (has overtone ring w/dry vents).

Finally, besides tuning, you may want to explore using wood shelled snares if you haven't already.

When you hit the snare sitting right next to it, does it sound dry?

Good luck.

[DWINC]

Originally Posted by Fleaman

Tighten your snare wire tension...the tighter they are, the more muted/drier it becomes.

Also, use a dampened snare head, like an Evans genera dry vented (has overtone ring w/dry vents).

Finally, besides tuning, you may want to explore using wood shelled snares if you haven't already.

When you hit the snare sitting right next to it, does it sound dry?

Good luck.

Well...back again and tried some things out. I started with the moongel and the tightening of the snarestrings. I don't know HOW tight I can get at the hightest, but right now the pitch is really high. It sounds like when you DO NOT want a dry sound ;)

When I sit next to the snare it does not sound dry, but not 'wet' either. There is a little high pitch in it, but not the real high pitch sounds that the basic kits have. (cos of the moongel it is MUCH better right now)

Wood shelled snares: really like them, especially the picolo's, but I ran out of money with my complete new (and pro) mic setup :)

I record a lot of fast metal and rock, and the kick and the snare are extremely tough to deal with.

Bjorn

[Fleaman]

Tightening the snare Wires should not really change the pitch.

You keep on mentioning 'high pitch' in your post when I thought we were talking about dry (vs. wet) snare sounds

Is there something lost in translation here?

Tightening the snare strings will really dry up the snare wire sound.

Moongell on the batter head will really dry up the ringing, overtones and really dampen the head.

Once you close mic that, I can't imagine getting much dryer than that...other than putting a t-shirt over the snare and playing on the shirt...but that is really extreme.

[DWINC]

Originally Posted by Fleaman

I can't imagine getting much dryer than that...other than putting a t-shirt over the snare and playing on the shirt...but that is really extreme.

I understand The Beatles put whole blankets on them ;)
Yeah, I think it is lost in the translation indeed. I will try again to check all things out tomorrow. Thanks for thinking along Fleaman

[fcorl]

I think the description of those snare sounds seems more "clean" than "dry". And, I think a lot of the ring is lost behind the wall of guitars. Some of that sound comes from tuning, playing, stick size, room acoustics, and mic selection and placement. As far as a nice "dry", although natural open sound, and "up close" sound; I like this:
YouTube - Thinking About You - Norah Jones

I know it's a completely different style of music, but still a nice drum sound.

Tightening the snares can actually raise the pitch just a bit.... and it can also choke the snare sound and that sounds like crap. A t-shirt tapped about 1/4 over the top of the snare head dampens the snare a lot and allows the drummer to still hit the drum head and not a wad of towels. You will get the early 70's Beatles snare sound in the room, but on tape/HD it just sounds weak and clicky to me (not fat and warm). Try less.... Maybe tape a leather wallet across the head and rim. Loosen the snares a little. Also a heavier drumstick, struck in the middle of the drum. If you don't want ring, stay away from rim shots. Play with tuning a lot. Usually the higher the tuning, the more ring you get out of a snare, until you crank so high you choke the tone right out. I think room acoustics play a huge role and room mic placement is important as well. Use the mic placement as EQ.... If you have to, you can EQ a little of the ring out later.

If you can, try maple shells and even different drum depths.