vintage bass drum sound

[zodiaque]

i recently bought a 70s Ludwig 24x14 bass drum. which heads should i use to get this vintage rock bass drum sound? i'm thinking about bonham or secret machines or something similar. an open sound that still cuts through.

are coated ambassadors for batter and resonant side the way to go? any tuning tips?

peter

[chetatkinsdiet]

That's exactly what I play. Check out our tunes to see if this is what you're looking for:

www.myspace.com/natefowlerselixir

I use Remo Powerstroke III on the kick...the clear ones. And a pretty standard single ply on the front, usually either coated or black with an offset 4" hole to jam a mic in. In the studio I sometimes will throw in a blanket with some weight on top. That's about it.

m

[chetatkinsdiet]

...oh tuning tips....I like a floppy batter side...just getting most of the wrinkles out. On the front, you can play with it and do the same or tune it up a tad tighter.
As for Bonham...he played big drums and tuned them higher than you might expect.

later,

m

[smithy269]

Jeff Ocheltree has a DVD called "Trust your ears" where he talks about his experience teching for Bonham. Haven't seen it in a while, but from memory on the kick drum, I believe it was was basically a 2 ply coated on the batter, and 1 ply coated on resonant side for the maple kits. They also used a felt strip under the resonant and batter heads. The resonant side was tuned higher than the batter head.

[zodiaque]

hey guys, thanks for your answers!

i just tried 1ply ambassadors for batter and resonant and i quiet like it. maybe i can upload a short clip from my rehearsal room so you can here how it sounds at the moment.

i'm not sure about a 2ply head, i once tried a 2ply head from evans and it wasn't very loud. but maybe that was just this evans head. i always played 1ply heads like ambassador or powerstroke 3 cause they seem to have enough power for loud stuff. is it true that 2ply heads on the kick are quieter than 1ply?

peter

[dontfearthringo]

Originally Posted by smithy269

Jeff Ocheltree has a DVD called "Trust your ears" where he talks about his experience teching for Bonham. Haven't seen it in a while, but from memory on the kick drum, I believe it was was basically a 2 ply coated on the batter, and 1 ply coated on resonant side for the maple kits. They also used a felt strip under the resonant and batter heads. The resonant side was tuned higher than the batter head.

This is EXACTLY correct-
Remo Emperor on the batter side, single play medium weight head (Ambassador coated) on the resonant side. Tuned tighter than you'd expect with felt strips to mute the resonance just a bit.

You are correct sir!

[C/G]

My two kits use a 24" bass drum. An Ayotte 24" X 17" and a Ludwig classic maple 24" X 16".

I like the clear Remo Power stroke III and a Remo Fibreskin on the outside. Just add a D12 and it's all good.

I use an Evans EQ pad instead of a blanket but it's basically similar and takes up less room than a blanket.

I tend to tune my beater side lower than the resonant side. Instant thumpy goodness. If I had to use a kick smaller than a 24" I think I'd cry.

[ToneBender67]

Originally Posted by zodiaque

i recently bought a 70s Ludwig 24x14 bass drum. which heads should i use to get this vintage rock bass drum sound? i'm thinking about bonham or secret machines or something similar. an open sound that still cuts through.

are coated ambassadors for batter and resonant side the way to go? any tuning tips?

peter

Congrats...vintage Ludwigs are the way to go, and a 24 can give you a hell of a sound. Is the drum 3ply?

For a Bonham-ish kick sound, most everybody is correct with the replies. There are a few discrepancies with the Ocheltree DVD (not trying to bash it, my friend Mark played the solo on it!) that I'd like to clear up:

Firstly, Bonham rarely (if ever) used a felt strip on the front of the kick. He seemed to have favored a homemade "powerstroke" ring, probably made out of another head and glued on the inside of the reso head. If you look closely at pictures of the Maple, Green Sparkle and Amber Vista kits, you can see the muffle ring. It appears as if Bonzo came up with the Powerstroke idea 25 years before Remo!

Secondly, Ocheltree teched for Bonham after he switched to the Stainless Steel drums. Since Bonzo never went back to the Vistalites, Ocheltree's claims to be "very familiar" with the Amber kit doesn't hold merit. Ocheltree most likely never went in the studio with Bonham either, since Zep recorded exclusively in Europe by the time Ocheltree was in the picture (he only worked on the American tours). I think Ocheltree was familiar with Bonhams tuning and methods, which he applied in the DVD. I've heard from several "in the know" people that Ocheltree never tuned the Stainless kit. He'd replace heads and perform maintenance, but Bonham would tune at sound check.

Finally, Ocheltree tries to pass the Green Sparkle set in the DVD as actually being Bonham's. Not true. I know the collector who sold Ocheltree the set that was used in the DVD (the sale took place about 10 years ago). When the kit was sold, it didn't include a 18x16 floor tom. If you watch the DVD closely, you'll see the 18x16 doesn't match (looks to be a re wrap).

Regardless of my nitpicking, it is a bad ass DVD and Mark Romans plays a great solo. Also very good mic information, which according to Andy Johns is correct.

[zodiaque]

Originally Posted by ToneBender67

Congrats...vintage Ludwigs are the way to go, and a 24 can give you a hell of a sound. Is the drum 3ply?

yeah, this thing is absolutely amazing! the shell is quiet thin and without reinforcement rings, but i don't know if it's 3 ply exactly.

thanks again for your answers so far!

[drumzealot]

I just started playing larger BDs about one year ago. What a blast! I bough several used drums all of which had different heads. This afforded the opportunity to try many different types and combos. On a 20 or 22 inch BD I love the clear Superkick batter and Fiberskin (single ply) on the front. With a 14x24 vintage Tama Superstar I could not get the 3-4 clear batter i could not get the woody, full, "vintage" sound I wanted. I ended up with a 2-ply coated Powerstroke batter head and a single ply non-coated on the front with a 4 inch off-set hole. The coated batter seemed to make a huge difference.
I also found the drum hard to manage when the batter head was loose. To confirm what most of these cats have already said, a tighter head may be preferable for two reasons. First, the sound is more defined, full and controlled especially when pumped through a PA. Tuned low, the note the drum makes is below what the human ear perceives (so I am told) and the dominate sound is the “click” of the beater hitting the head and too little of the fundamental note which resulted in a flat and empty sounding “click” instead of a nice full thud. By tuning it up (and placing a small soft blanket against the head) the fundamental note became more pronounced and I was able to achieve a nice click/note ratio. Second, the action of the drum became more suited to my style. I like to pull the beater away from the head immediately after each hit. I don’t normally burry the beater into the head. With a loose head the amplitude of the vibrations is so big it slowed the action down.

[daryllh]

effin eh Tonebender. Thanks for all that corrected info. Awesome. thumbsup

[ToneBender67]

Originally Posted by daryllh

effin eh Tonebender. Thanks for all that corrected info. Awesome. thumbsup

No prob. It's what I'm here for!

[zodiaque]

I made a short clip in my rehearsal room to give you an impression of the sound at the moment. it's very rough, I just put some mics on the drums, no eq, only a little compression with emi plugin on the buss.

its an coated ambassador on the batter side and a ludwig 1ply on the resonant side. the resonant head has an off-center hole that was already there when I got the drum. after your advises I will probably try an coated emperor for batter and an ambassador without hole for resonant side.

what do you think?

[thegatsby]

Sounds pretty good, what was your mic set up?
Also what snare are you using?

[Monty Sneddon]

I have a late 60's 3 ply Ludwig kit with a 24 x 14 bass drum and I use coated ambassadors on both the batter and the reso.

I have the batter side at a medium tension and the reso head a wee bit tighter. For damping I use a foam pillow which sits on the bottom of the drum.

There's a hole in the reso head to allow easy mic palcement.

[JulianFernandez]

Originally Posted by zodiaque

I made a short clip in my rehearsal room to give you an impression of the sound at the moment. it's very rough, I just put some mics on the drums, no eq, only a little compression with emi plugin on the buss.

its an coated ambassador on the batter side and a ludwig 1ply on the resonant side. the resonant head has an off-center hole that was already there when I got the drum. after your advises I will probably try an coated emperor for batter and an ambassador without hole for resonant side.

what do you think?

Nice playing dude!

[Legacy Audio]

Coated Ambassador's and felt strips on both sides.
Avoid thick heads and dampening rings.