Quiet Acoustic Drums

[Seek]

It's not the neighbors that I'm worried about at this time. It's my own hearing, as well as that of the people I play with. There's one guy I play with in particular that it's almost always a very intense experience. But I don't like having to decide between protecting my hearing during the loud (intense) parts versus not being able to hear the subtleties during the calmer times.

I've not tried ear muffs along with in ear monitors and some dynamics processing, maybe that would work. My gut reaction is that a solution involving open ears would be better though.

Thanks for the suggestions on the different sticks. I have a pair of Vater Acousticks that look similar to the Rutes. They work better, though they sound a bit different. On rimshots, they can still be pretty loud. I'll spend some more time with them, and have my buddy try them the next time we play.

Brushes are great for low volume, but the sound is totally different. I don't think we can express the same kind of intensity with them.

Has anyone tried those GigPigs, or any other small kits like that. How loud are they?

[joeq]

If you are looking for "quiet drums" I think you are looking at the wrong thing for a solution to your problems

drums are loud. deal with it or take up the harmonica.

here are some ideas:

1. work on your technique. An experienced player can sound good and have control at a number of volume levels.

2. try different sticks. Small tip but good counterweight will play quieter than regular stick. I personally like the Vic Firth Peter Erskine model for a good rebound at a lower volume. There are sticks called SD5 echoes which are stupidly quiet - like playing with chopsticks but with better bounce.

3. Try some volume-reducing earplugs. Unlike wax or foam type plugs these plugs attenuate the sound but leave the frequency balance intact. There are plenty of models and brands. You can get Sonic II's for about $10 at a music store and there are others that require you to go to an audiologist and get custom molds made. In there somewhere is one that will work for you to lower the volume without leaving your hearing muffled or unclear.

[blackwatch]

There's one guy I play with in particular that it's almost always a very intense experience.


i'm with you all the way man

i often wished to have a kit that wasn't loud but still real

there is a way to play super light but still expressive

try pulling your brushes to the halfway point...not fully fanned out

you can get some super cool tones like that!

[jamshaman]

It's too bad no one makes an acoustic kit and cymbals that is made to be quiet from the ground up. I'm not talking about a practice kit or a padded kit - I mean a real pro kit that is always quiet.

This "dude, drums are loud, get over it" attitude is ********, not to mention antiquated. The days of guitar players having to crank their amps to ear bleeding levels to get a good tone are gone - there are ways around that now (power soaks, etc., there are even effects that simulate feedback..) Think of how many more gigs you can get by having a quieter band. More gigs = more money too!

I realize that drums need to be hit with a certain velocity to get that sweet tone, I play a little drums here and there too, but the sound fidelity of the band as a whole goes way up when everyone can play at relatively lower volumes - like that of a jazz combo playing with an un-miked stand up bass for instance. Plus it's nice to be able to talk to each other while rehearsing a song to work things out while the band is playing..

It's just to bad that no drum manufacturers have worked on making quiet acoustic kits. It's like they just figure that electronic drums will fill that vacuum, but electronic drums have their own set of problems.. The best solutions I've seen is where drummers tape all kinds of shit to their cymbals and drums - and in that case that particular kit will always be quiet. It's not like they're gonna take all that taped shit off to play a louder gig, they just use a different kit. So why not just have a kit that is quiet right out of the box?

[cortisol]

Originally Posted by Seek

Hello. Wondering if anyone has a suggestion for quiet acoustic drums that sound good. It helped a lot to cover the majority of the walls and ceiling around my drums with absorbers, but the drums are still too loud. I currently still play wearing ear muffs, but this isn't desirable when playing with other people.

I need to record with this setup.

I can play my current drum sets quietly, but I don't like the tone as much this way. The rimshot on my snare for instance.

Options:
1. Learning to tune my drums to get the sound I want with them played quietly
-- different heads?
2. Muffling the drums (cymbals?)
3. Buying a new set
4. Electronic (perfect solution other than the incomplete expressiveness)

Suggestions?

Thank you.

The first thing to do is to go to light sticks. Jazzy 7A kind of sticks.

The next thing is to practice your rim shots at different dynamics!

Some cymbals are quieter and don't project as much as others so swap out your loud cymbals for quieter models.

If you crank you drums tuning wise then they will project and cut more! So insted of high tunings try a medium tuning.

Smaller drums will be capable of slighty less volume so try shallower depths and smaller sizes! Try a 20 inch kick and smaller sized shallower toms and a shallower snare such as one that is 5 inches deep insted of 6 1/2 etc.

Also what joeq said in his 3rd point about musicians ear plugs. Why not go to an audiologist and get some propper ear plugs that bring down the volume levels evenly across the frequencies. It's expensive but worth it as you will still hear your kit acoustically but with less dBs.

Peace,
cortisol

[scrubs]

Even with brushes and multi-rods, I still use hearing protection behind the kit. It's just smart. The Etymotic Hi-Fi plugs allow a pretty full spectrum of sound to come through, just at a lower volume. It's worth having a few pairs around.

ER-20 Hi-Fidelity Ety-Plugs - Music & Concert Plugs

[biggator6]

It's too bad no one makes an acoustic kit and cymbals that is made to be quiet from the ground up....

This "dude, drums are loud, get over it" attitude is ********, not to mention antiquated. The days of guitar players having to crank their amps to ear bleeding levels to get a good tone are gone - there are ways around that now (power soaks, etc., there are even effects that simulate feedback..) Think of how many more gigs you can get by having a quieter band. More gigs = more money too!

You are dead wrong on a bunch of levels, sorry.

First - drums ARE loud.. they're not designed that way, it's called 'physics'. Take a wood stick and smack your kitchen table as hard as you can - is it loud? Yes, it's loud.. because you're hitting a resonant object with a stick. Now do it with both hands and feet, and throw in some pots and pans for accent. It is loud.

As for the guitar stuff.. go into a studio and go listen to how they track guitars. There aren't any 'feedback simulators' in use, and not a whole ton of power-soaks either.. at best, you'll see a lower-wattage amp cranked (which, a 14-watt amp cranked is still uncomfortably loud) - but more likely a big, loud, cranked amp.

What I do to keep my drums 'quiet', at least to me - I put some mics up on the kit, run them into a small mixer, and use isolation headphones. Then I can hear the kit as much as I want, but at a MUCH lower volume than if I were wearing nothing. It works great, and is a fairly cheap solution (you're posting on gearslutz, so you must have a couple of mics and a mixer, right?)
"-)

[drumzealot]

Originally Posted by biggator6

You are dead wrong on a bunch of levels, sorry.

First - drums ARE loud.. they're not designed that way, it's called 'physics'. Take a wood stick and smack your kitchen table as hard as you can - is it loud? Yes, it's loud.. because you're hitting a resonant object with a stick. Now do it with both hands and feet, and throw in some pots and pans for accent. It is loud.

You are dead wrong, actually. Try hitting the kitchen table as lightly as you can. Is it loud? No.
Dynamics
Control
Drums can be less loud. I've played gigs where a normal talking voice would be as loud as my drums.
Tune the heads tighter.
Hit them with less velocity.
You'll find the volume to be lower. Its majic!! Oh wait, its physics.

[Nutmeg II.]

Originally Posted by drumzealot

You are dead wrong, actually. Try hitting the kitchen table as lightly as you can. Is it loud? No.
Dynamics
Control
Drums can be less loud. I've played gigs where a normal talking voice would be as loud as my drums.
Tune the heads tighter.
Hit them with less velocity.
You'll find the volume to be lower. Its majic!! Oh wait, its physics.

Yes!

I once played a gig in a small pub and it was with a rock band.
The folks sitting right from my set were having conversaitons and I could clearly understand them.
And the show was great! All the rock one need at a low volume.

[drmmrboy]

Quiet drums = Jumbo shrimp..

Dynamic playing.. Ear plugs.. thumbsup

[drumzealot]

To answer the question: There aren't really any drums that have been successfully designed to be quiet. Do a search for "practice drum set" and you'll find some options. Another option is something along these lines: SMART PRACTICE™ DEADHEAD™ PRACTICE PADS.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by drumzealot

You are dead wrong, actually. Try hitting the kitchen table as lightly as you can. Is it loud? No.

now tap your drum as lightly as you can

Is it louder than your kitchen table? yes.

Quite a bit louder - in fact, at whatever intensity you strike a drum, it will be louder than almost anything else you could strike with that same intensity.

It's not that drums can't be played softly, but it is wrong to say they are not intrinsically loud.

It's hard to play really softly. Hard to get the rebound from dinky sticks, hard to play fast at low volumes, hard to whip over to the floor tom and play one quiet note. If drums were not loud, it would be a lot easier. Certainly it is more difficult to play drums softly than it is to play almost any other instrument softly - unless that instrument has a volume control!

Drums ARE loud. tutt

To say otherwise is to diminish the effort necessary to control your volume with technique.

[jimcroisdale]

I agree.

Playing rock drums quietly is beyond most drummers that I've met. As you say, you can't whip over to the floor tom at speed and then just tap it at the last moment, like Bruce Lee.

The drummers that I've known, if you ask them to play quiet they slow down - it's the only way they can do it.

Anyway, drums sound different when you hit them more gently. They certainly don't sound 'rocking'.

I suppose my comments only apply to rock/metal styles, but still. Sometimes when we gig you'll get someone going "Ooh it's so loud!" And i'm like "Yes. We are a rock band. It is supposed to be loud. We are no more loud than we were last time and we are certainly no louder than Zep were when you saw them in 75 (or whenever!)"

Rant over. If you want quiet do what our local jam night has done. GET RID OF THE DRUMMER ALTOGETHER INSTEAD OF FORCING THE POOR BASTARD TO PLAY QUIETLY!!

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by jimcroisdale

If you want quiet do what our local jam night has done. GET RID OF THE DRUMMER ALTOGETHER INSTEAD OF FORCING THE POOR BASTARD TO PLAY QUIETLY!!

That's soooooo wrong.
Any good drummer can play dynamically. They can play loud or quiet and sound as intense and fullsome.
Bonham too. All the greats.
They play at the right volume for the song - not loud because they are drummers and that's all drummers can do.

Honestly, adding this to your cymbal topic I think you think you know a lot more than you actually do.

[jimcroisdale]

Yeah, thanks for that. I know nothing and know that i know nothing, but there is a lot of waffle around too.

John Bonham is dead. And he, or anyone with a skill level remotely similar has never drummed at, or even visited our local jam night.

I'm not saying that great drummers can't do this or that. I'm saying that a lot of average drummers find it hard. Certainly the ones i've played with.

I know we should all practice at various volume levels, tempos etc, but this doesn't always happen. A lot of rock drummers simply play along to their fave tracks as loud as they like. They don't enjoy playing quietly at all. And if you're not a pro, you're playing for enjoyment, right?

I don't need to be an expert to say that. It's just an observation.

[chrisso]

Actually all of the above is OK, but you didn't say that.

You said drums don't sound 'rockin' when they are played gently.
Sometimes they can (Nick Mason).

And you ranted about people saying rock drums were too loud.
'It is supposed to be loud'
Yeah, but it isn't a rule never to be broken.
And you suggested anyone who didn't want it so loud should get rid of the drummer.
As a drummer myself.....I'd rather play gigs than not, so I'll try and fit in with the general vibe, not give them the fuuck

[jimcroisdale]

Ok, fair enough. My rant was slightly directionless, to say the least!

Again, Nick Mason has never played at our jam night either..... haha!

I guess I'm talking about the drummers that I've played with. I suppose one or two in particular have jaded me a little, so sorry if I'm tarring you all with the same brush.

Can we play nicely now?

[jimcroisdale]

Chrisso - where abouts in Oz are you?

I have family over there and have visited, and I'm getting a lot of pressure to move over there.

What's the 'pub and bar' music scene like? I'd be living somewhere on the west coast, probably 40k south of Perth - Warnbro or thereabouts.

When I visited I realised that there aren't really any bars to play in where all the houses are being built - I assume it's better nearer to Perth?

Jim

[Nutmeg II.]

Ok a last try.
Get a Drumset with smaller sizes.

20"/18" Kick
12" & 13" Toms (if more needed you might add a 14" or 10")

Make sure to get short depth and thin shells.

For batter heads take Remo Powerstroke 4.
They are double ply + muffling ring.

Tune as low as possible.

That way you get a controlled sound with lowend and the volume is way lower than on a regular sized kit with all Ambassadors on the drums.

The main problems are still cymbals and the snare.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by jimcroisdale

What's the 'pub and bar' music scene like?

Not as much music going on as in the UK.
WA and Perth are stunning locations.
It's a lifestyle choice not one for the music career.
(Although there are good bands coming out of Perth)

[drumzealot]

Originally Posted by joeq

now tap your drum as lightly as you can

Is it louder than your kitchen table? yes.

Quite a bit louder - in fact, at whatever intensity you strike a drum, it will be louder than almost anything else you could strike with that same intensity.

It's not that drums can't be played softly, but it is wrong to say they are not intrinsically loud.

It's hard to play really softly. Hard to get the rebound from dinky sticks, hard to play fast at low volumes, hard to whip over to the floor tom and play one quiet note. If drums were not loud, it would be a lot easier. Certainly it is more difficult to play drums softly than it is to play almost any other instrument softly - unless that instrument has a volume control!

Drums ARE loud. tutt

To say otherwise is to diminish the effort necessary to control your volume with technique.

Don't you love it when people want to argue over things on which they agree?

Drums ARE loud when played loudly.
Drums ARE quite when played quietly.
Drums ARE dynamic.
This is what I said in my previous post. I did not say that drums are intrinsically quiet nor loud.

It is hard to play with dynamics but it can be done. Keep practicing, you'll get there eventually.
It is possible get tons of rebound from any (straight) stick: heavy, light, long, short, chop sticks (seriously).

Regarding what's louder, a kitchen table or a drum: I try not to argue over such profound issues. countries go to war and civilizations end over such things. But, I bet the harder surface, ceteris paribus, would produce more Dbs.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by drumzealot

Drums ARE loud when played loudly.
Drums ARE quiet when played quietly.
Drums ARE dynamic.

It is hard to play with dynamics but it can be done.

Bingo.
thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

[StereoAtLast]

umm yeah... the day I hear a quiet drummer in any envirorment I'll be getting my winter jacket out because hell will have surely frozen over.

you're talking about multiple sound sources from both sides of the drum, so even if you're just tapping with 7As, that resonant head is still going to produce considerable volume.

doubt me?

put your ear under a jazz drummer's snare... maybe your ringing ears will explain my point better.

the only way to make a kit even slightly quieter is to cover the whole damn thing (both top and bottom heads) in copious amounts duct tape or the like, and fill all the drums with additional muffling, deadening the resonance and the attack (the basic principles of how the drum makes sound) are the only conceivable way to get the volume down.

and to be honest, other than making the whole thing sound like a horse's ass, I can't even promise that it would quiet the kit down to a reasonable volume.

Even if the drummer is amazing at controlling his dynamics, if he's playing with traditional sticks it's still going to be fairly loud.

BUT

if you really want to try to quiet it down I suggest investing in either brushes or hot rods.

[aclarson]

What's the answer to 99 out of 100 drum sound threads?

Drum Tuning Bible

[talkshowman]

This whole thread has really made me laugh so very, very much.

Short answer, learn to play more quietly. Play with a belt tied around your chest and upper-arms. Gary Chester was an advocate of this as it forces you to play all from your elbows down as opposed to winding up into each beat. This will work best if all of your drums are within reach while tied up (I'm aware this sounds very S&M but go with me on this one). Basically make all your movements smaller, let the sticks and gravity do the bulk of the work for you. I'm not suggesting doing this at a gig, but force yourself to learn a new set of smaller, more efficient movements in your playing. You could also do yourself a favour and work on GLADSTONE and MOELLER techniques.

Or, to echo nutmeg, smaller sizes. Specifically, a 16" (or smaller) kick, with a 12" tom as your lowest pitched tom. Works for me . One of my old drum mentors still gigs regularly with a 14" kick. Admittedly it's jazz, but when it's miked up and eq'd does the job admirably. Or go for something without actual shells like a FlatTraps set (or something like that).

But seriously, anyone complaining about the lack of quiet acoustic drums being '********' is pretty short sighted, especially comparing them to things like electric guitars. It's not a lack of equipment, it's a lack of skill. Sorry, but it's true. I'm not saying it's easy, but the things in life that are worth it never are. You need to up your game and your technique. Buy yourself a copy of GL Stone's 'Stick Control' and work through it methodically. It does what it says on the tin. If you do it properly you'll be able to play the book at every speed and every volume you want.

Just some thoughts and observations, YMMV and all that stuff. And to quote Tony Williams, "Of course my drums sound loud.....They're drums!!"

[surf_jaws]

Better than Anything else on the market. Looks very tribal, but they work. They DO. I only play acoustic, and they're pretty solid.

Did I mention they really work? I now use these exclusively. And I tried everything else on the market - these are about 50% lower volume.


www.lidwishsoulutions.com

[jimcroisdale]

Use celery.......

Quiet AND tasty!

[drumzealot]

Originally Posted by jimcroisdale

Use celery.......

Quiet AND tasty!

Sorry dude. Celery IS loud. I don't care how honed your chewing skills are. You're going to wake the neighbors eating that stuff. Enormous DBs will be created from multiple sources and your head will act as a resonant chamber amplifying the sound even more. Some heads being more hollow than others will, of course, produce a louder deeper sound.

Doubt me?

Try putting a contact mic on your cheek and then eat some celery. Just make sure your preamp input is prepared for the deluge of signal.

Clams. now THOSE ARE quiet.

[rettigrocker]

Why does everyone waste time arguing mindlessly??

For one reason or another the original poster needs to play drums quietly.
I doubt this is an impossible thing to do.

Do you have tips to help him dampen his acoustic kit to play at a quieter volume?
No? Then please don't reply.