Quiet Acoustic Drums

[Jax]

Ok, what's your suggestion? That we should behave ourselves and answer the question? This begs the question of what you observed when you (didn't?) read the whole thread.

This thread is 4 years old.

Plenty of people offered reasonable suggestions already. Obviously, because this is an internet forum, people will have different views on how anything can be accomplished. Almost never is one way right and another wrong. The approaches are just different.

The other side of the bed often better for waking.

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[Ron Vogel]

A buddy of mine in the early 90's had an absolutely kick-ass quiet kit...IIRC it was a DW. It had clear plastic shells about 4" deep (including the kick). You could maintain good tone playing normally, and we used to practice in a local college hallway on several occassions.

Sorry for lack of pics or anything...it was years ago, and a quick net search found nothing on them.

[bishopdante]

I've been working on this for a few years.

The format of the drumset is 1940s, basically, it's all about playing to a crowd without amplification. Loud like symphony orchestra loud.

If one goes quieter, then one can have... better sound! I've been designing a few contraptions which use kit drum techniques but have the same sort of volume footprint as an acoustic guitar.

The other thing I've been trying to include is making it light & small, packing up into a rucksack.

[Philip S Bova]

A less loud drumset would be a 60's 3ply japanese stencil kit. Put some evans hydraulics on 'em and they will probably be quieter (i never said quiet, they are drums after all) than most kits.

[bdenton]

I go back to the days when we had to worry about overpowering the 40-watt Twin Reverb's and Basseman's that were the norm. Here's how we did it...

7A sticks.

Coated Remo Ambassadors on both batter and resonant sides of all drums, except snare resonant heads. All tuned tight.

Lambswool bass drum beaters.

Small diameter shells, standard depth or shallower.

Some types of wood and construction methods are louder than others. I don't remember the particulars, but do a little digging and find out about the wood and construction Ludwig used in the mid-60's; they were inherently quiet drums that could be played loud.

And finally...the secret weapon...felt strips. They run across the bottom of the batter heads, between the head and the shell. Place them next to the lugs that are just off-center on the drums. Use strips about 1" wide on your snare and toms; about 2" wide on the bass drum.

Then don't forget technique...learn to hit with power without hitting hard. That sounds like a contradiction but it's not. It's power, not hitting hard, that gives a good sound. Learn how to leave your stick on the head a fraction of a second longer than normal; that cuts projection.

Check out Hal Blaine's playing on some of the Beach Boys early records..."Surfer Girls" comes immediately to mind. And it's not just a matter of pulling down some faders on the console, studio pros, like most other pro drummers, know how to play quietly.

I'm sure I'll think of a couple of other things as soon as I hit the "Post" button, but that'll get you started...

[wezmabini]

I have struck this bad attitude time and again. It is worth relating one instance when the drummer refused to play quieter with "I'm a loud drummer - that's what I do." We were recording on multitrack. All through the gig the singer was calling for more foldback, and it wasn't working out. There was no way to present a balanced mix to the audience. When we listened to the multitrack recordings it confirmed what we thought - the drums were much louder than the voice at the microphone. Giving more foldback just gave more drums. Since it was impossible to give the band a good mix, we just dubbed down the vocal track, with everything else turned off. It was pretty much all drums, with bass close behind and guitar right up there too. You could hear the poor vocalist in the distance, working so hard and having to belt every note. No - the vocalist was not quiet, she was a trained singer with a powerful voice. Did everyone go home saying how great the drummer was? No they just thought the band was crap, whereas they were all great players individually. Every verse sounded much the same - forget following the lyrics. You can find on Youtube, Charlie Watts (The Rolling Stones) explaining how the hardest thing about drumming is being able to play quietly without losing intensity. This search for quiet drums is quite valid. So drummers, get control of your sound and play for the band. It is essential that the loudest sound going down the vocal mic is the vocal - duh.

[joeq]

Originally Posted by wezmabini

This search for quiet drums is quite valid.

the search for quiet _drummers is quite valid

the search for quiet DRUMS is a chimera

take the drummer in your story, give him any drum set commercially available, tune and and tape it any way you want, and I will bet you he would STILL have been "too loud". Because it's him.

A lot of the argument here is about some kind of non-existent magical drumset that will reduce the volume of the player. While there may be some differences in projection from model to model, "quiet drums" is largely an oxymoron.

[wezmabini]

No; quiet drums are not an oxymoron. You can stand in a drum warehouse at night in total silence. Everyone knows what is meant by the term. Pedantics seem to be a hobby for some, and only confirms the attitude of "What I have to say is more important that what is accomplished by the discussion" which is pretty much the same as "If my drums sound good, that's all that matters".

In this thread, we have some valuable suggestions on how to quieten a kit down, and some recommendations for (relatively) quiet drum models. The discussion on the need for drummers to get away from the line of least resistance and actually master dynamics with intensity is also useful stuff. When drums are played quietly, the result is quiet drums. Then the sound engineer has something to work with.
It can not be overemphasized that the drums must be quieter than the voice at the microphone. The sound of someone belting away while someone else, seemingly 2 rooms away, is screaming their lungs out, is just a crap band sound, and becomes boring very quickly because the lyrics and vocal dynamics are lost. A great musician and teacher once said : "Learn the difference between being excited and being exciting."
Check this out, especially 2:51 to 3:23 Charlie Watts "If It Ain't Got That Swing" - YouTube

[joeq]

Originally Posted by wezmabini

Everyone knows what is meant by the term.

apparently not you

there is nothing 'pedantic' about my position. I am drawing a very clear line between what I see as effective solutions to 'loud drums' (change the drummer) and ineffective solutions to 'loud drums' (change the drum set).

In this thread, we have some valuable suggestions on how to quieten a kit down, and some recommendations for (relatively) quiet drum models.

not 'valuable' in the slightest, IMO

these suggestions are worthless without a cooperating drummer, hence the title of oxymoron.

Given a skilled musician, any drumset can be a 'quiet drumset'. Given a basher, no drumset is a quiet drumset. Looking for a quiet drumset to solve your "basher" problem is a total waste of time.

Once again, I urge you to complete my proposed thought experiment: Try ANY of these proposed "valuable" suggestions of models or physical drumset treatments on how to "quiet a kit down" on the drummer in your story.

even better, try it as an actual, physical experiment in the real world. Bring that magic drumset down to this clown's next gig.

[chas19]

Get a birch kit and tune them high. Its pretty much your only option on an acoustic. Maple/bubinga kits are so loud so don't get them.

However you are then pretty much limiting yourself to intermediate kits, but could work for you ?

[Jax]

Although I continue to think this thread is based on a logical fallacy and I wish it would go away, to wezmabini I would suggest asking the loud drummer if he wanted to play an electronic kit so that his volume could be controlled. I doubt he (or most acoustic drummers who like to play loud) would go for it even if his band bought him the kit, so then the next best thing is canned drums. That's right, just record the backing drum tracks and control them in the FOH and monitor mix... and have a boring show with no drummer to watch.

The only other solution if the drummer can't or won't play dynamically in a way that serves the music and the band? Fire him and get a drummer with some dynamic skill. Your drummer's drums are not the problem, the drummer is. I don't see how this isn't glaringly obvious. You're barking up the wrong tree, as they say.

[pmgsound]

Hehe, you guys are so funny. K, back to the beginning of the question. I've been spending some time looking for the same thing. Quiet drum sound without compromising too much on the feel and sound of it. Yes, we want to practice, we don't want to be a pain in the but with our super loud instrument and we care about our ears ! Sooo here my findings:

The drum heads can be replaced with mesh drum heads. Here some options
Hart Dynamics| MAXXUM DRUMHEADS
Pearl mesh heads
Mesh Heads & Muffs
682Drums rim silencers en mesh heads voor akoestische en electronische drums.
Here a combination of Ballistic and Brutal Drumware
3 Ply Mesh Heads : DIY Drummer, Australia's Premier E-drum Parts Supplier

This is how it would sound (1st half of the video):
New kit trigger demonstration - YouTube

And for Cymbals, just get the Zildjian Gem 16 line of cymbals.
Gen 16 exclusive demo by Matt Read at Zildjian Factory - YouTube

If you wanna get electronic, then get triggers by DDrum and then use superior drummer. This is how it would sound
Nir Z Allaire Jam - YouTube

Hope that helps

[biggator6]

Originally Posted by pmgsound

Hehe, you guys are so funny. K, back to the beginning of the question. I've been spending some time looking for the same thing. Quiet drum sound without compromising too much on the feel and sound of it. Yes, we want to practice, we don't want to be a pain in the but with our super loud instrument and we care about our ears ! Sooo here my findings:

The drum heads can be replaced with mesh drum heads. Here some options
Hart Dynamics| MAXXUM DRUMHEADS
Pearl mesh heads
Mesh Heads & Muffs
682Drums rim silencers en mesh heads voor akoestische en electronische drums.
Here a combination of Ballistic and Brutal Drumware
3 Ply Mesh Heads : DIY Drummer, Australia's Premier E-drum Parts Supplier

This is how it would sound (1st half of the video):
New kit trigger demonstration - YouTube

And for Cymbals, just get the Zildjian Gem 16 line of cymbals.
Gen 16 exclusive demo by Matt Read at Zildjian Factory - YouTube

If you wanna get electronic, then get triggers by DDrum and then use superior drummer. This is how it would sound
Nir Z Allaire Jam - YouTube

Hope that helps

mesh heads + triggers != acoustic drums

That's just taking drums and making e drums out of them... which isn't what the OP wanted. What the OP wanted doesn't actually exist, but we're discussing it anyway.
"-)