If you own Cubase or Nuendo, and if either one hangs on exit...
Jeff Hayat
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#1
24th January 2013
Old 24th January 2013
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If you own Cubase or Nuendo, and if either one hangs on exit...

and if you can see the dongle while sitting at your kbd, and have a little while to spend at some point over the next few days, please pm me here. I have a favor to ask.

Thank you!
Jeff Hayat
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#2
1st March 2013
Old 1st March 2013
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Anyone?
#3
1st March 2013
Old 1st March 2013
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No hang here, crash once in a while though exit

I can test whatever you need me to bro. Im on OSX though 10.8.2
Jeff Hayat
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#4
2nd March 2013
Old 2nd March 2013
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Hey dude, thanks for the offer.

If you have a crash, that's not going to help, tho.

Cheers.
#5
2nd March 2013
Old 2nd March 2013
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Jeff, you on PC? How are you exiting the app?
Jeff Hayat
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#6
2nd March 2013
Old 2nd March 2013
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By closing it.

And before you say anything else....

Hitting the 'x' at the top right, double-clicking the icon on the top left, and accessing File > Quit are exactly the same.

PC - Win 7
#7
2nd March 2013
Old 2nd March 2013
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Good luck. I believe thats been an issue for awhile
#8
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
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Do you get that behavior 100% of the time? Just starting an empty project then quitting will cause a hang?

Sent from my DROID RAZR
Jeff Hayat
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#9
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sodium glow View Post
Do you get that behavior 100% of the time?
No, maybe 20%

Quote:
Originally Posted by sodium glow View Post
Just starting an empty project then quitting will cause a hang?
Yes. Me and countless others.
SLL
#10
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
  #10
SLL
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If Cubase takes extra long to exit (lets say 25 seconds or longer), then try out a new clean profile. Either rename the Cubase 7 folder to something different, and let Cubase create a new profile automatically when you start it. Then you can always go back to your old profile, just by renaming it back again.

Or

You should also be able to start Cubase in "save mode", by holding down "Shift + alt + ctrl/command", directly after clicking on the Cubase icon. This will show a load menu, where you can select to initialize the profile once, until next time you load Cubase.
#11
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
No, maybe 20%



Yes. Me and countless others.
Wow that is odd. I have 4 different windows 7 Nuendo/Cubase rigs and I don't get this behavior. I can remember having an issue like this on one of my machines and I figured out the problem. BFD plugin was causing the problem. When I removed it from my plugins folder the problem was resolved.

I know another guy here in Nashville who has similar issues to yours and I don't think he got it figured out yet either

Sent from my DROID RAZR
#12
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sodium glow View Post
Wow that is odd. I have 4 different windows 7 Nuendo/Cubase rigs and I don't get this behavior. I can remember having an issue like this on one of my machines and I figured out the problem. BFD plugin was causing the problem. When I removed it from my plugins folder the problem was resolved.

I know another guy here in Nashville who has similar issues to yours and I don't think he got it figured out yet either

Sent from my DROID RAZR

I had the same issue with a version of BFD.



MC
#13
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norbury brook View Post
I had the same issue with a version of BFD.



MC
That is a good thought for the OP. Have you tried removing all the 3rd party plugins to see if the problem goes away?

Sent from my DROID RAZR
Jeff Hayat
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#14
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
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Myself, and many others can attest to the fact that this issue has nothing to do with:

Video card drivers
Audio card drivers
The audio card itself
The MIDI interface
MIDI interface drivers
Other USB peripherals
USB hub
3rd party plug-ins
3rd party VIs
3rd party software
Automap
Controller surfaces
Deleting preferences
The way Cubase is exited
Running Cubase in admin mode

etc.

The problem is the dongle - or the way the dongle is and is not accessed - and I can actually prove that.

I appreciate anyone wanting to help, but the only thing I am really looking for is more users to do some testing, so that I have more ammo to go to SB with.

Cheers.
#15
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
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Why not contact support with your findings and have them test?

Personally, I wish they would ditch the dongle and do what Presonus is doing
Jeff Hayat
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#16
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanabit View Post
Why not contact support with your findings and have them test?
Did that. SB's mantra has always been, "if we cant repro it, we won't even attempt to fix it."
#17
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Myself, and many others can attest to the fact that this issue has nothing to do with:

Video card drivers
Audio card drivers
The audio card itself
The MIDI interface
MIDI interface drivers
Other USB peripherals
USB hub
3rd party plug-ins
3rd party VIs
3rd party software
Automap
Controller surfaces
Deleting preferences
The way Cubase is exited
Running Cubase in admin mode

etc.

The problem is the dongle - or the way the dongle is and is not accessed - and I can actually prove that.

I appreciate anyone wanting to help, but the only thing I am really looking for is more users to do some testing, so that I have more ammo to go to SB with.

Cheers.
If it is dongle related, and no other peripherals play a role, do you have any guesses as to why it doesn't affect all users? Just curious?

Sent from my DROID RAZR
#18
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
  #18
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No problem here 3 different computer OS and cubase versions. Had the problem once back when Cubase 4 came out it went away a few updates later.
Jeff Hayat
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#19
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sodium glow View Post
If it is dongle related, and no other peripherals play a role, do you have any guesses as to why it doesn't affect all users?
No idea.

Any guesses as to why it affects so many users?


#20
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
  #20
Gear maniac
 

I had the exact same problem here, Win 7, Cubase 6. I my case the culprit was a badly written audio card driver. New interface and the problem is gone.
#21
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
No idea.

Any guesses as to why it affects so many users?



You said you could prove it is dongle related. So I assumed you had done some research which may have led you to some conclusions. Just trying to get some info and help if I can.

I know several people at Steinberg and Yamaha. I also host the users group in Nashville. So if you can get me any info that I can pass along or projects that I can use to try to reproduce the problem I will help you resolve the problem.

Send me what you've got if you'd like my help.





Sent from my DROID RAZR
Jeff Hayat
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#22
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sodium glow View Post
Just trying to get some info and help if I can.
Thanks - I appreciate it.

The following info has - I have been told - been passed on "unofficially" to one of the devs in Hamburg. Tho, I have no way of confirming that.

Here goes:

Cubase makes routine calls to the dongle, to make sure it is there. This can be seen by looking at the dongle, and seeing it blink. What concerns us here, is the exit call that is made. When you click close (or use File > Quit) a call is made to the dongle (coupled with a dongle blink), and Cubase closes. What I have found is that on occasion, there is no dongle blink (call) upon instructing Cubase to shut down, and that the lack of this dongle call causes Cubase to hang. It's like this:

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle blinks; Cubase closes

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle blinks; Cubase closes

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle does not blink; Cubase hangs

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle blinks; Cubase closes

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle blinks; Cubase closes

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle does not blink; Cubase hangs

I have tested this extensivley over the course of two weeks (not 24/7 obviously). The above behavior is 100% consistant. Cubase never hangs when there is a dongle blink; it never shuts down when there isn't.

It's not just me - I have two other users who, after sending them the above info, are seeing the exact same thing. Tho both of them have two dongle blinks to my one, and one dongle blink to my none. Which in and of itself is strange, but...

So for them it's:

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle blinks 2x; Cubase closes

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle blinks 2x; Cubase closes

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle blinks 1x; Cubase hangs

Unfortunatley, there is no repro; tho I have tried, I cant make Cubase not call to the dongle upon exit.

Thanks for your time.
#23
3rd March 2013
Old 3rd March 2013
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Thanks - I appreciate it.

The following info has - I have been told - been passed on "unofficially" to one of the devs in Hamburg. Tho, I have no way of confirming that.

Here goes:

Cubase makes routine calls to the dongle, to make sure it is there. This can be seen by looking at the dongle, and seeing it blink. What concerns us here, is the exit call that is made. When you click close (or use File > Quit) a call is made to the dongle (coupled with a dongle blink), and Cubase closes. What I have found is that on occasion, there is no dongle blink (call) upon instructing Cubase to shut down, and that the lack of this dongle call causes Cubase to hang. It's like this:

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle blinks; Cubase closes

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle blinks; Cubase closes

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle does not blink; Cubase hangs

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle blinks; Cubase closes

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle blinks; Cubase closes

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle does not blink; Cubase hangs

I have tested this extensivley over the course of two weeks (not 24/7 obviously). The above behavior is 100% consistant. Cubase never hangs when there is a dongle blink; it never shuts down when there isn't.

It's not just me - I have two other users who, after sending them the above info, are seeing the exact same thing. Tho both of them have two dongle blinks to my one, and one dongle blink to my none. Which in and of itself is strange, but...

So for them it's:

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle blinks 2x; Cubase closes

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle blinks 2x; Cubase closes

Launch Cubase
Close Cubase
Dongle blinks 1x; Cubase hangs

Unfortunatley, there is no repro; tho I have tried, I cant make Cubase not call to the dongle upon exit.

Thanks for your time.
Thanks for the info. I have 4 dongles so I will check each of them. Do you have access to a different dongle? Or have you tried buying a new one..I know its more money etc.

My thought being that maybe there was a run of bad dongles. Which would explain why it only effects certain users. All my dongles are fairly old. Can you determine when yours were manufactured?


Sent from my DROID RAZR
Jeff Hayat
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#24
4th March 2013
Old 4th March 2013
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Good thinking about the dongle. This had actually come up before, with a forum-friend of mine, and Chris Dobbs from US tech support. The theory being that maybe I have an "older" dongle, and that I should try a new one. I actually have three dongles, the "Cubase" dongle, which came with SX2.0 and it almost 10 years old, and two newer ones that I got to work with VE Pro. The "older" dongles are longer than the new ones, but my Cubase dongle is the same saize as the newer ones, as depicted here:



Chris said that even tho my Cubase dongle is not what is considered an "older" one, the fact that it is a decade old means that I at least should try a newer one. So I transferred the license to one of the newer ones, and issue persists. So that's not it.

Cheers.
#25
4th March 2013
Old 4th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Hayat View Post
Good thinking about the dongle. This had actually come up before, with a forum-friend of mine, and Chris Dobbs from US tech support. The theory being that maybe I have an "older" dongle, and that I should try a new one. I actually have three dongles, the "Cubase" dongle, which came with SX2.0 and it almost 10 years old, and two newer ones that I got to work with VE Pro. The "older" dongles are longer than the new ones, but my Cubase dongle is the same saize as the newer ones, as depicted here:



Chris said that even tho my Cubase dongle is not what is considered an "older" one, the fact that it is a decade old means that I at least should try a newer one. So I transferred the license to one of the newer ones, and issue persists. So that's not it.

Cheers.
Hmmm...have you tried temporarily removing all the licenses from the newer dongle EXCEPT the Cubase license. Possibly a conflict of some sort between the additional licenses on the dongle and the Cubase license. After doing that just having the one dongle with the Cubase license inserted into the computer. Not sure if that would work but maybe worth a shot.

Also...another thought. I know this is a big pain...BUT if you have another hard drive laying around you could install a clean copy of Windows and Cubase. See if the problem is still there.

I helped a local producer out with his system recently and the clean install fixed several odd issues he was having. But I know from your photo of the poll on the Steiny forum that there are obviously lots of people having the same issue...I'm sure someone has tried a clean OS install already.

What are your system specs? Motherboard, processor etc.
#26
4th March 2013
Old 4th March 2013
  #26
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I'm on Win 8 and Cubase 7 both 64 bit and have the same 10% hang at closing problem. I also had that problem with Win XP and Cubase 4. I'd be glad to help testing out solutions.
Jeff Hayat
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#27
4th March 2013
Old 4th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALEKNOSTAR View Post
I'm on Win 8 and Cubase 7 both 64 bit and have the same 10% hang at closing problem. I also had that problem with Win XP and Cubase 4. I'd be glad to help testing out solutions.
Thanks for your offer. If you can see the dongle while sitting at your kbd, I'd be happy to take you up on that - send me an email to jeffh at jeffreyhayat dot com

Thanks!
Jeff Hayat
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#28
4th March 2013
Old 4th March 2013
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sodium glow View Post
Hmmm...have you tried temporarily removing all the licenses from the newer dongle EXCEPT the Cubase license.
Yep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sodium glow View Post
Also...another thought. I know this is a big pain...BUT if you have another hard drive laying around you could install a clean copy of Windows and Cubase. See if the problem is still there.
That is the one thing I have not yet tried. Been wanting to, but been busy. Tho, as you pointed out, there are so many people with this issue... if I did install a clean copy of Windows and Cubase on a new HD and that took care of the problem, that would mean that there was something wrong with my system. Now, I am ready willing and able to admit to that - however, if that were the case, that would mean that those other 300+ people would have the exact same thing wrong with their system as I do mine. What are the chances of that?

Specs:

Intel Duo Core i7 960 3.2g Processor
ASUS P6T MB with the Intel X58 / ICH10R chipset
24 GB of Crucial RAM: DDR3-1600 / PC3-12800 / Unbuffered • NON-ECC
NVIDIA GeForce 8400 GS Vid card
2x M-Audio 24/96 Delta soundcards
MOTU Micro Exp. USB MIDI Interface
iLok Dongle

Something else interesting. There is someone I used to work with, who is a sw dev, and a number of years ago, he wrote drivers for a dongle for an app he was working on. I spoke this morning. He said that he actually encountered a similiar problem. In a follow up email, he said this:

Quote:
It (the problem) was not based on a dongle but simply that I had multiple threads running and at the time the exit application was invoked, I had a situation, sometimes where a thread was in a 'deadly embrace' waiting on another thread to set a signal, but that thread was already closed. It is possible that it may be a situation analogous to that.
He then said he would keep looking, and get back to me if he had any more info.

Cheers.
#29
4th March 2013
Old 4th March 2013
  #29
Gear maniac
 

If you are using a PCI soundcard with a fairly new motherboard there is a good chance that this causes these issues.

From another forum:

“The motherboard incompatibility is caused by the ITE chipset that manages data flow from the PCI slots over the PCI-Express bus. Only the Intel Q series chipset natively supports the PCI bus at this point, everything else has to work through an extra chipset platform on the motherboard, and it has very poor support from a lack of proper testing.”

Have you tried another (USB/FW)-Soundcard just to remove this possibility from the list?
Jeff Hayat
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#30
4th March 2013
Old 4th March 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by color View Post
If you are using a PCI soundcard with a fairly new motherboard there is a good chance that this causes these issues.

From another forum:

“The motherboard incompatibility is caused by the ITE chipset that manages data flow from the PCI slots over the PCI-Express bus. Only the Intel Q series chipset natively supports the PCI bus at this point, everything else has to work through an extra chipset platform on the motherboard, and it has very poor support from a lack of proper testing.”

Have you tried another (USB/FW)-Soundcard just to remove this possibility from the list?
Hi - thanks for the response. Please read my post above where I say it isnt the audio card nor it's drivers.

Cheers.
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