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Things in Cubase 7 that Logic users would hate?
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Rufuss Sewell
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6th December 2012
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Things in Cubase 7 that Logic users would hate?

I'm quite intrigued by Cubase 7. Especially the chord track.

I make a lot of crappy canned music for commercials and sometimes it can be a bit difficult to find inspiration. I think I might enjoy using the chord track.

But I work very quickly in Logic and I'm pretty happy. Is there anything you could see a Logic user hating about Cubase 7?

I use a ton of VIs. Mainly NI Komplete and Superior Drummer.

I'm on a rMBP with 16gb ram. I use an Apogee Rosetta 800 and Symphony Mobile.
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6th December 2012
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lack of bounce in place perhaps? hell I dont know. Try it out, see for yourself?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai handberg View Post
lack of bounce in place perhaps? hell I dont know. Try it out, see for yourself?
Definitely. If you rely on Bounce in Place, you will be disappointed by the extra steps required. You'll get used to it after a while and you might be able to set your own macro up if it really gets to you.

I think it's worth noting that you might dislike the interface. A lot of the graphics do seem kind of rushed so if you're a very visual person, then Cubase (in some areas) might not be for you.

If you work with a lot of audio, I think you will like Cubase's feature set more and it more desirable in comparison. I really like the slip tool the most.

Bussing is a bit different and the UI is more windows-based (not the OS) than it is embedded so an extra monitor or two is almost a necessity for me. Opening and closing windows is less than ideal.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
I'm quite intrigued by Cubase 7. Especially the chord track.

I make a lot of crappy canned music for commercials and sometimes it can be a bit difficult to find inspiration. I think I might enjoy using the chord track.

But I work very quickly in Logic and I'm pretty happy. Is there anything you could see a Logic user hating about Cubase 7?

I use a ton of VIs. Mainly NI Komplete and Superior Drummer.

I'm on a rMBP with 16gb ram. I use an Apogee Rosetta 800 and Symphony Mobile.
My advice would be:
A) Wait until the demo version is available
B) When you check out the demo, don't try to operate Cubase as you would do with Logic.
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6th December 2012
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Buying and using Cubase 7 doesn't stop you from continuing to use Logic.

I found using Cubase 6 gave me a better perspective on Logic's strengths and weaknesses.
For audio Cubase wins hands down, no contest.

I think the new chord track does look useful for those moments when your stuck for a bit of inspiration.
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6th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufuss Sewell View Post
I'm quite intrigued by Cubase 7. Especially the chord track.

I make a lot of crappy canned music for commercials and sometimes it can be a bit difficult to find inspiration. I think I might enjoy using the chord track.

But I work very quickly in Logic and I'm pretty happy. Is there anything you could see a Logic user hating about Cubase 7?

I use a ton of VIs. Mainly NI Komplete and Superior Drummer.

I'm on a rMBP with 16gb ram. I use an Apogee Rosetta 800 and Symphony Mobile.
i use both and while i don't hate cubase for it, these are the things that are different -

a. grouping and sends
b. ability to dock mixer / piano roll
c. one extra step to loop a segment (okay call me lazy) and transport options.
d. video compatibility. it works perfect with mov, while other formats need tweaking sometimes, especially avi.
e. the included VI's.

you will love the drum track and VI management though. and folder tracks. i use EW Play and its a pleasure to use Cubase.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai handberg View Post
lack of bounce in place perhaps? hell I dont know. Try it out, see for yourself?
It seems as though the demo won't be out until January. I was considering just buying it. But I would hate to do that to find out there's some deal breaker.

All this ASIO delay stuff was creeping me out. Like some VSTis record the notes early? I didn't really understand the conversation to be honest.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nishant View Post
i
c. one extra step to loop a segment (okay call me lazy) and transport options.
Just curious, I don't know jack about Logic, but in Cubase you just push 'p'. How does Logic do it faster? Do you have an option to "always loop selection" so that it just does it automatically as you click around?
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In logic you drag a bar across the top to select your loop range and play. I have L set to turn looping on and off.
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You can do that in Cubase as well. Just like Logic you have to turn looping on and off.
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7th December 2012
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As already mentioned the look of Cubase could turn off a Logic user. I mostly use Cubase but when I use Logic I really enjoy the streamlined beautiful GUI. Cubase on the other hand is quite ugly. The new mixer is great, sure. But IMO it looks terrible. Almost unbearingly ugly

Oh well...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalle789 View Post
As already mentioned the look of Cubase could turn off a Logic user. I mostly use Cubase but when I use Logic I really enjoy the streamlined beautiful GUI. Cubase on the other hand is quite ugly. The new mixer is great, sure. But IMO it looks terrible. Almost unbearingly ugly

Oh well...
Yeah, the grainy metal texture that looks like it was just quickly blurred in Photoshop is offputting. That and the fact that it seems like they hired fifteen different UI guys for it. There isn't any kind of "unity" between the new rack system, faders and the rest of Cubase. I wish they would have just kept the background of the mixer plain.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
You can do that in Cubase as well. Just like Logic you have to turn looping on and off.
i meant that in relation to transport options. in logic, you press play, it would play the looped segment no matter where you were in timeline earlier.
don't know how to do this in cubase. if possible, please share
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nishant View Post
i meant that in relation to transport options. in logic, you press play, it would play the looped segment no matter where you were in timeline earlier.
don't know how to do this in cubase. if possible, please share
I like that Cubase starts playing where you left it. Press 1 on the numeric keypad to jump to the beginning of the loop selection. You can do this wether Cubase is playing or not. (And pressing 0 on the keypad will go to the start of the project). / will turn on/off looping.

As has already been mentioned, if you have any clip selected, pressing p will set the loop to the length of the selected clip(s). You can also drag select in the timeline or CTRL-click in the timeline to set the left loop locator and ALT-click to set the right locator.

I hope this helps.

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11th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nishant View Post
i meant that in relation to transport options. in logic, you press play, it would play the looped segment no matter where you were in timeline earlier.
don't know how to do this in cubase. if possible, please share
Cubase has key commands for that. Like "Loop Selection"

Look through the Key Commands (alt/opt K) to see others.
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Long time ago I purchased the Steinberg DAW and got so frustrated with the UI so I switched to Logic. Anyway, today's Cubase is a far cry from the early day dialog monster.
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As a long time Logic Pro user who now uses Cubase 7 (which is amazing - the new mixer is simply fantastic) I can honestly say there is nothing is Cubase 7 I hate when compared to Logic.

Now the question the other way around .... don't get me started
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12th December 2012
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Cubase is a little like that one guy whom when you first meet seems abrasive, moody and a little weird - but who later turns out to be a good, reliable and close friend. Once you figure out a few ins and outs it all starts to make more sense.

I do still want a function to render any track, place the audio AND track in the same place and reset the mixer track completely - in one operation. Better yet, A way to batch this. Technically we have this - but you need to dig in a few dialogs, click, select, render, move tracks up to where the originals are, delete originals and route the tracks to the same groups as the originals. Hell, even hook up the sends as the originals were.

That would really be sweet - and would save me ALOT of time. Maybe they will get to this eventually!

I hope cubase will stay "ugly". Thats how I like it. Ugly and functional, like a powertool - so it feels like going to work as a carpenter or something. Grrrrr manly!
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12th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai handberg View Post
I do still want a function to render any track, place the audio AND track in the same place and reset the mixer track completely - in one operation.
Steiny would benefit greatly by adopting all of the freeze options available in Samplitude/Sequoia. It is my number one unfulfilled wish list item. Object editing is my number two.
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13th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai handberg View Post
Cubase is a little like that one guy whom when you first meet seems abrasive, moody and a little weird - but who later turns out to be a good, reliable and close friend. Once you figure out a few ins and outs it all starts to make more sense.
This is spot-on! Well said. Cubase can put people off right away, no doubt. But it rewards investment (even if it has a few quirks that are frankly unforgivable).
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After working with Cubase 7 a bit, I think the workflow is nowhere near as quick as Logic. Yes, it has a lot of functionality - but it usually takes a lot more clicks to do very common, simple tasks compared to Logic / PT / Studio One. This is my impression based on using it.

I suggest you wait for the demo. So far, I am disappointed considering how long Cubase has been around and how frequently it is updated.
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Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
...but it usually takes a lot more clicks to do very common, simple tasks compared to Logic / PT / Studio One.
As a veteran Cubase user, I'm curious to know specifically what you mean? It feels like I rarely use the mouse for Cubase, relying mostly on customized key commands and macros. I do select and Right-Click a bit but that's mostly for moving around the project or deeper menu items.... or using clip gain, editing text in the information bar, etc.

just curious...
Also wonder if some of your unfamiliarity with the program requires more mouse clicks?
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Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
just curious...
Also wonder if some of your unfamiliarity with the program requires more mouse clicks?
That's totally possible! I'm pretty new to Cubase. However, things I've noticed thus far:

- No bounce in place. Yes, I guess I can set up some sort of macro, but the one in the Cubase forums still only adds the track to the bottom of the track list, so you have to move it up. Not as fast as S1 or Logic.

- There's no temporary snap override in the MIDI editor like there is on the arrange page? So, you have to toggle snap on and off if you want to tweak a note position. PT / S1 / Logic have a key modifier that makes this quick.

- Automation / CC editing - if I'm on the arrow tool, no key modifiers to erase points
or trim sections. No way to just select a section and automatically create 4 points so you can trim it up or down. PT and Logic are very quick for this stuff. Same for clip gain - PT's clip gain implementation is very fast to use. This was what the forums told me to do to trim a section: "Put the locators around the section you want to trim. Open the automation panel. Under the Fill section, select Loop. At the top turn on the "Trim" button. Now move the fader that has the Automation on it, it will adjust that entire section up or down." Wow - in PT and Logic, I can just grab a section and move it up and down. I know I can do that sort of with Cubase's arrow tool, but it requires selecting the points you want to change beforehand.

- I don't like Cubase lanes at all. PT's playlists and S1's layers are much more flexible. Lanes behave really strangely for me (there's always one phantom empty lane on a track and when I try to bounce the comp, it deletes all the lanes?? Maybe I need to use the glue tool?)

- The way PT sets / toggles pre and post roll is so quick - just click on the time bar up top. With Cubase, I was using the transport panel and typing in manual times.

These may not seem like big issues, but they do impact workflow quite a bit (especially if you're used to a DAW that does these things faster). I've been trying to watch the MacProVideo tutorials, but they don't go into depth on some of these "advanced" techniques. They are very surface-level. Any recommendations?

Thanks!
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17th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
However, things I've noticed thus far:
I'll try these one by one... it might help... don't know...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
- No bounce in place. Yes, I guess I can set up some sort of macro, but the one in the Cubase forums still only adds the track to the bottom of the track list, so you have to move it up. Not as fast as S1 or Logic.
Since I've never used "Bounce In Place" as part of my workflow, I don't really understand the need. I've used things like "Freezing" parts/tracks to increase resources, but not since moving to 64bit. The export process does include batch and import to track function (which is what you've referred to). Perhaps some more detail about why the need to bounce a part inside of a working project?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
- There's no temporary snap override in the MIDI editor like there is on the arrange page? So, you have to toggle snap on and off if you want to tweak a note position. PT / S1 / Logic have a key modifier that makes this quick.
Use "j" key to toggle snap on/off. Toggling the snap on/off is a temporary override. There's also an icon at the top of the editor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
- Automation / CC editing - if I'm on the arrow tool, no key modifiers to erase points or trim sections. No way to just select a section and automatically create 4 points so you can trim it up or down. PT and Logic are very quick for this stuff. Same for clip gain - PT's clip gain implementation is very fast to use. This was what the forums told me to do to trim a section: "Put the locators around the section you want to trim. Open the automation panel. Under the Fill section, select Loop. At the top turn on the "Trim" button. Now move the fader that has the Automation on it, it will adjust that entire section up or down." Wow - in PT and Logic, I can just grab a section and move it up and down. I know I can do that sort of with Cubase's arrow tool, but it requires selecting the points you want to change beforehand.
This one is a multi-part thing.... Clip-gain, Automation and CC data aren't the same thing in Cubase, so they have different workflows.

Clip-gain: Just use the handles of an event to change it's gain or fades. Click-drag.... what could be faster?

CC-data: With data points selected, point can be dragged up/down from center. Points may also be dragged up/down from sides to create linear power changes. You can also select a note or range of notes and right-click. The choose SELECT-Select CC data in Note Rage (process can also be key-command to avoid clicks). This is essentially "select a section and automatically create 4 points so you can trim it up or down."

Automation: When you say "if I'm on the arrow tool, no key modifiers to erase points or trim sections" I assume you mean something different. I use the arrow tool, select points, and press delete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
- I don't like Cubase lanes at all. PT's playlists and S1's layers are much more flexible. Lanes behave really strangely for me (there's always one phantom empty lane on a track and when I try to bounce the comp, it deletes all the lanes?? Maybe I need to use the glue tool?)
The lanes are a bit different. They made a change in Cubase 6 which I'm still not sure was much improved by the new "finger tool." Personally I preferred the old lanes workflow too.

Curious though?.... Why would you want to "bounce the comp?" Why not just keep the multiple passes and close the lane view?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
- The way PT sets / toggles pre and post roll is so quick - just click on the time bar up top. With Cubase, I was using the transport panel and typing in manual times.
Remember you can create customized Key-Commands for everything in Cubase.... Use Pre-Roll often? Create a keyCommand to toggle that on/off. To change the number, you can click and drag number up/down instead of typing.

Other things related to pre-post rolls....
You can set times by positioning cursor and using ALT+click on the L or R. You can also select a region and press "P" to set L and R locators to the regions start and end points. Use "i" and "o" to toggle punch-ins and punch-outs.
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17th December 2012
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Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
Perhaps some more detail about why the need to bounce a part inside of a working project?
For primarily two reasons - one, to save on resources and two, because it forces you as a creator to commit, which I think is important. Freeze is nice, but I find having the audio there instead is nicer (and then allows you to manipulate the audio). Is Cubase's freeze pre or post inserts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
Use "j" key to toggle snap on/off. Toggling the snap on/off is a temporary override. There's also an icon at the top of the editor.
Right - I was hoping for a way without toggle the snap on and off. This requires an extra click compare to PT / Logic / S1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
Clip-gain: Just use the handles of an event to change it's gain or fades. Click-drag.... what could be faster?
I meant the pre-fader volume envelope that you draw onto the event (aka what PT calls clip gain). Only the pencil tool seems to work on it and it doesn't have trimming capability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
CC-data: With data points selected, point can be dragged up/down from center. Points may also be dragged up/down from sides to create linear power changes. You can also select a note or range of notes and right-click. The choose SELECT-Select CC data in Note Rage (process can also be key-command to avoid clicks). This is essentially "select a section and automatically create 4 points so you can trim it up or down."

Automation: When you say "if I'm on the arrow tool, no key modifiers to erase points or trim sections" I assume you mean something different. I use the arrow tool, select points, and press delete.
Thanks - I will try this. Was hoping to avoid having to select specific nodes first when trimming (like PT and Logic allow).

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
Curious though?.... Why would you want to "bounce the comp?" Why not just keep the multiple passes and close the lane view?
Purely for clean up. Say your comp consisted of lots of small sections - I like to consolidate those into a single event.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
Other things related to pre-post rolls....
You can set times by positioning cursor and using ALT+click on the L or R. You can also select a region and press "P" to set L and R locators to the regions start and end points. Use "i" and "o" to toggle punch-ins and punch-outs.
Thanks - I'll try this. Sounds fast (and like PT).

I think generally what may be the issue for me is that Cubase lacks a "smart tool" like PT or (to a lesser extent) Logic. Having a smart tool and having various "hot spots" on the region / automation speeds up workflow an incredible amount. They also make great use of key modifiers to switch tools temporarily (requires 1 less action than actually switching to the tool completely like Cubase requires).
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17th December 2012
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Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
As a veteran Cubase user, I'm curious to know specifically what you mean? It feels like I rarely use the mouse for Cubase, relying mostly on customized key commands and macros. I do select and Right-Click a bit but that's mostly for moving around the project or deeper menu items.... or using clip gain, editing text in the information bar, etc.

just curious...
Also wonder if some of your unfamiliarity with the program requires more mouse clicks?
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I'm suprised he used FL Studio and not Cubase for that cover. Apparently, he thinks the fl studio workflow you "get your ideas out quicker". Just wondering how you can move fast in cubase compared to fl studio or studio one?
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17th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
For primarily two reasons - one, to save on resources and two, because it forces you as a creator to commit, which I think is important. Freeze is nice, but I find having the audio there instead is nicer (and then allows you to manipulate the audio). Is Cubase's freeze pre or post inserts?
Cubase's freeze is pre inserts. BTW here is the Cubase bounce in place macro if anyone's interested.
www.steinberg.net • View topic - Bounce In Place is possible in C7 New [Video]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopre
Apparently, he thinks the fl studio workflow you "get your ideas out quicker".
Thats kind of vague. Did he mention anything specific regarding workflow?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sopre
Just wondering how you can move fast in cubase compared to fl studio or studio one?
One of the biggest ways you can "move fast" in Cubase compared to other DAWs is with the media bay. Media bay lets you categorize and create custom "tags" for ALL your samples, loops, synth & effects presets (including all Reaktor ensembles), midi files, etc.. for quick easy and specialized searches. So for example, I can easily find all the synth bass presets from ALL of my synths and browse from the highest rated to lowest rated and narrow the search further by using Cubase's built in categories ("distorted", "clean", "mono", "poly". etc...) and/or I can narrow the search even further by using my own custom tags ("saw", "square", "sine", etc...). I can also tell the media bay to exclude certain categories and/or "tags" in a search. And that's really just the tip of the iceberg... there is so much more you can do with this extremely powerful tool! I can't even imagine the nightmare my workflow would be without Cubase's media bay! AFIAK Cubase is the only DAW with such an advanced media management system, although I hear Bitwig's media browser will allow tagging but it remains to be seen if it will be as in-depth as Cubase's.
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17th December 2012
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Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
I meant the pre-fader volume envelope that you draw onto the event (aka what PT calls clip gain). Only the pencil tool seems to work on it and it doesn't have trimming capability.
I've never used the pencil tool while changing clip gain in Cubase. Here's how I trim and make clip gain adjustments to fades. Volume envelopes I draw in with automation if I want non-destructive. (Sometimes I'll process the audio with the envelop editor but rarely.)



First, you can see trimming is done with the selector tool. Then clip gain and fades..... I'm sure it's different in every program but I don't think you'll be able to move much faster than this, regardless of workflow differences.
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The issue is that the clip gain you're referring to changes the volume of the entire region, while the envelope lets you draw in a specific curve over the entire region. This is very useful for editing vocals for example. Looks like this

That is what I was referring to.
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Right.... that's the type of thing I'd use automation for. See... you can automate the "input gain" which has the same effect. Although you don't get the cool waveform graphic adjustment you might see in PT10.

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