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Things in Cubase 7 that Logic users would hate?
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#31
17th December 2012
Old 17th December 2012
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Ah interesting - you could get the waveform showing in the lane though right using the automation panel settings? It wouldn't change, but it would be there at least. Can you commit the input gain automation to the region if you want to save it like that?

I've mentioned some points about Cubase I've found to be less than easy for me personally compared to other DAWs. I think it is only fair to ask you, as a veteran Cubase user, what are some of the top workflow things you like about Cubase vs the others?
#32
18th December 2012
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If you wanted to commit the gain change I wouldn't use automation but the envelope processing tool. (old pic)

The envelop processor has three types of curve smoothing but it's destructive.

OK... so to answer the other question... I'll give you what I like and what I don't. I'll also give you a disclaimer... The only other modern DAW I own is PT10 and I rarely use it (only for laybacks and session compatibility). Over the years I've used them all but current versions of Logic, Live, Sonar, and Fruity Loops aren't in my wheelhouse.

Why I Like and use Cubase: MIDI and Virtual Instruments workflow are big for me. Expression Maps. Logical Editors. Folder tracks. Customizable KeyCommands and Macros. They innovate.... ASIO, VST3... Cubase included "Clip Gain" 4+ years ago. Solid 64bit platform. Media Bay. Tempo grid warping. Most importantly... I can run faster and deeper on this platform than any other. (I tell people all the time, which DAW you use doesn't matter. What you do with it does.)

What I don't like in Cubase: Score editor (good news is they just hired the core Sibelius team after Avid fired them). Doesn't have export to QuickTime like PT. Doesn't add punches or streamers to video files like Digital Performer. No AAF support.

There are some things that are better in other programs but on the whole I've not experienced or read about anything that makes me want to switch.
#33
18th December 2012
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Interesting. Do you have any more in depth / advanced tutorials you could recommend?

Thanks!
#34
18th December 2012
Old 18th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
Right - I was hoping for a way without toggle the snap on and off. This requires an extra click compare to PT / Logic / S1.
If you hold down Ctrl (presumably, there's a Mac equivalent), this will toggle the snap (edit - you may need to be zoomed in for this to work).

Last edited by Eukali; 18th December 2012 at 03:06 AM.. Reason: Additional details
#35
18th December 2012
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That's the thing about advanced tuts..... there usually isn't a majority of resources in the category. I've found a few places with some interesting discussions.

The "Advanced Cubase User" group on Facebook is pretty good.

Alex Pfeffer uses Cubase and talks about some tricks. cubase | alexpfeffer.net

Phil Pendlebury has some posts. Phil Pendlebury – Search results for Cubase

These are old but still apply.... 20 Instructive Cubase Tutorials

About Logical Editing... http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/aug1...-tech-0810.htm
#36
18th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
Right.... that's the type of thing I'd use automation for. See... you can automate the "input gain" which has the same effect. Although you don't get the cool waveform graphic adjustment you might see in PT10.
Why not use the clip envelope to do this? (The Input Trim makes more sense to me to pull a whole channel input down pre inserts).



And use the regular gain handle for trimming the whole clip up or down. Still not as practical as Pro Tools but workable.

I agree that the PT Smart Tool and key modifiers are very powerful. Cubase is very strong on the keyboard shortcuts and macros but is still quite weak GUI wise IMO.

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#37
18th December 2012
Old 18th December 2012
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Cubendo was stronger pre PT10 in terms of clip level handling.
But PT current implementation is a bit smarter.
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#38
18th December 2012
Old 18th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow View Post
Cubase is very strong on the keyboard shortcuts and macros but is still quite weak GUI wise IMO.

Alistair
This point gets brought up a lot.... and I can understand why. But, I don't understand why ProTools doesn't get the same type of commentary. PT isn't a great looking interface either. From what I've seen, Logic looks good and Live is fairly easy on the eyes. DP, ProTools, and Cubase are pretty even in the ugly dept. Then again.... I'm not a very visual person.

Regarding Input Gain automation vs Clip Gain envelops: The OP didn't like using the pencil tool to draw clip gain. I'm just showing that using the automation lane allows for selector tool use AND it accomplishes the exact same thing.

Also.... there are operations that can be performed on automation data that can't happen for Clip Gain. I tend to use Gain handles for fades or entire clip gain adjustments.

Is it 6 or a half-dozen?

* Is it just me or has Clip Gain become a trend lately? It seems that it's often discussed or used in situations where plain old automation would work just fine.
#39
18th December 2012
Old 18th December 2012
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I guess you could set up a macro

Sent from my GT-I9100P
#40
18th December 2012
Old 18th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kai handberg View Post
Cubase is a little like that one guy whom when you first meet seems abrasive, moody and a little weird - but who later turns out to be a good, reliable and close friend. Once you figure out a few ins and outs it all starts to make more sense.

I do still want a function to render any track, place the audio AND track in the same place and reset the mixer track completely - in one operation. Better yet, A way to batch this. Technically we have this - but you need to dig in a few dialogs, click, select, render, move tracks up to where the originals are, delete originals and route the tracks to the same groups as the originals. Hell, even hook up the sends as the originals were.

That would really be sweet - and would save me ALOT of time. Maybe they will get to this eventually!

I hope cubase will stay "ugly". Thats how I like it. Ugly and functional, like a powertool - so it feels like going to work as a carpenter or something. Grrrrr manly!
I completely agree. When I first got cubase I didn't have a clue where to start, but after I learned the basics from the internet it just became natural to me. Now I feel like I know the majority of cubase in and out and I absolutely love it.

My only problem with it is that certain tasks seem to take longer than they should such as setting up busses, or creating sends.

And as far as looks go, who ****ing cares? Haha. Functionality is what matters. I have every single aspect of the graphics on my computer set to minimum except resolution.

On a side note, I have heard great things about Studio One and am considering giving it a try.
#41
18th December 2012
Old 18th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
This point gets brought up a lot.... and I can understand why. But, I don't understand why ProTools doesn't get the same type of commentary. PT isn't a great looking interface either. From what I've seen, Logic looks good and Live is fairly easy on the eyes. DP, ProTools, and Cubase are pretty even in the ugly dept. Then again.... I'm not a very visual person.
I was not referring to looks. I was referring to the lack of a Smart Tool the "Windows hell". The unscrollable Inspector etc etc. GUI functionality. Don't get me wrong. Cubase is my main DAW for my own music productions but still, there are quite a few things that could be improved. Often relatively small things but that would enhance my personal Cubase workflow tremendously.

Quote:
Regarding Input Gain automation vs Clip Gain envelops: The OP didn't like using the pencil tool to draw clip gain. I'm just showing that using the automation lane allows for selector tool use AND it accomplishes the exact same thing.
Yes, understood. I wasn't completely sure whether Clonkified is aware of the combination of clip gain envelopes AND the overall clip gain handle.

Quote:
Also.... there are operations that can be performed on automation data that can't happen for Clip Gain. I tend to use Gain handles for fades or entire clip gain adjustments.
Same here.

Quote:
* Is it just me or has Clip Gain become a trend lately? It seems that it's often discussed or used in situations where plain old automation would work just fine.
Well it is rather handy. Here is one little feature of the Avid Artist series MC Control I love using with PT: I can permanently assign the jog wheel to clip gain. I can select any clip or clips and twirl the jog wheel to increase or decrease the clip gain level of what is selected. (And you can set the gain step size). I can also just select a region within a clip and hit the "separate" shortcut and quickly adjust individual words or notes or whatever. Brilliant!

Alistair
#42
18th December 2012
Old 18th December 2012
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arvfur is offline
Clip gain in Cubase is Pre-Inserts/eq/dynamics/sends.
Automation is not. Don't know if this is the same in Protools.
#43
18th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arvfur View Post
Clip gain in Cubase is Pre-Inserts/eq/dynamics/sends.
Automation is not. Don't know if this is the same in Protools.
You can automate the Input Trim which is also pre-inserts. (PT doesn't have an input trim but you can insert a Trim Plugin in the first insert slot and automate that. Less practical than clip gain IMO).

Alistair
#44
19th December 2012
Old 19th December 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
PT isn't a great looking interface either. From what I've seen, Logic looks good and Live is fairly easy on the eyes. DP, ProTools, and Cubase are pretty even in the ugly dept. Then again.... I'm not a very visual person.
UI tends to be somewhat subjective, but in my professional opinion (since I'm paid to design and build customer-facing software), Pro Tools 10 has a fantastic user interface. They have done a really great job from a color and usability perspective. I think Logic and Ableton are 2nd, and Cubase 3rd (I don't feel Cubase is particularly bad - but does have some usability issues regarding window management, lack of smart tools, etc. Macros are great, but then the new mixer's color scheme and aesthetic is a bit questionable).

To the guy who was questioning why it matters what products look like - have you heard of Apple? Apple has taught the product development community (and consumers) that design matters. It invokes an emotional response from the user which is very important when it comes to how the user feels when using the product. That feeling / vibe is even more important when working with a product that is helping you be creative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
* Is it just me or has Clip Gain become a trend lately? It seems that it's often discussed or used in situations where plain old automation would work just fine.
Automation is post-fader, so it doesn't affect this like dynamic plugins, etc. I like that Cubase has the event volume line - that's super cool. Just wish their general tool usability was a little more clever.
#45
19th December 2012
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Again.... Stating that all automation is post-insert or post-fader is incorrect.
Again.... The Cubase mixer has a pre-insert Input gain trim and it can be automated.
#46
19th December 2012
Old 19th December 2012
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Sorry, forgot about the pre-gain automatable knob..yes of course.
....that was a bit disappointing as I thought that it could be used to make a, say +1 db voc mix, ma -1 db voc mix and so on, if it's pre- then it's unusable for such a task.
But the clipgain and volume events drawn on the part is always pre ins/send/dyn/....no?

To sum up: 3 or 4 different and independent possible gain/level? adjustements in Cubase signal path....no wonder I'm lost at times
#47
23rd December 2012
Old 23rd December 2012
  #47
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Hello and first post here!
The OP mentioned he uses a lot of VI's. That will be something you are disappointed with Cubase on, even with the new ASIO Guard which only works with VI's are are non disk streaming and only have one MIDI channel.
I mainly write music for games these days and what I can do with my main Mac Pro from 2006 in Logic requires two PC slaves with Cubase unless I freeze tracks constantly.

Chris
#48
24th December 2012
Old 24th December 2012
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Something that extreme sounds like user error to me.
#49
1st January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nishant View Post
i use both and while i don't hate cubase for it, these are the things that are different -

a. grouping and sends
b. ability to dock mixer / piano roll
c. one extra step to loop a segment (okay call me lazy) and transport options.
d. video compatibility. it works perfect with mov, while other formats need tweaking sometimes, especially avi.
e. the included VI's.

you will love the drum track and VI management though. and folder tracks. i use EW Play and its a pleasure to use Cubase.

When you say that logic has the ability to dock the piano roll and mixer, how do you mean? I didn't know this was possible. how can this be achieved?

Chris
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#50
2nd January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nishant View Post
c. one extra step to loop a segment (okay call me lazy) and transport options.
Just discovered this - if you hold down ALT / OPTION (I think) and move the cursor to the bottom right corner of an event, it should turn into a pencil - that allows you to drag out repeats of the event, similar to Logic's region looping. Pretty handy since that was one of my early frustrations with Cubase.
#51
8th January 2013
Old 8th January 2013
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Its called Freeze in Cubase.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albatrossy View Post
Definitely. If you rely on Bounce in Place, you will be disappointed by the extra steps required. You'll get used to it after a while and you might be able to set your own macro up if it really gets to you.

I think it's worth noting that you might dislike the interface. A lot of the graphics do seem kind of rushed so if you're a very visual person, then Cubase (in some areas) might not be for you.

If you work with a lot of audio, I think you will like Cubase's feature set more and it more desirable in comparison. I really like the slip tool the most.

Bussing is a bit different and the UI is more windows-based (not the OS) than it is embedded so an extra monitor or two is almost a necessity for me. Opening and closing windows is less than ideal.
#52
9th January 2013
Old 9th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clonkified View Post
UI tends to be somewhat subjective, but in my professional opinion (since I'm paid to design and build customer-facing software), Pro Tools 10 has a fantastic user interface. They have done a really great job from a color and usability perspective. I think Logic and Ableton are 2nd, and Cubase 3rd (I don't feel Cubase is particularly bad - but does have some usability issues regarding window management, lack of smart tools, etc. Macros are great, but then the new mixer's color scheme and aesthetic is a bit questionable).
Yep, PT the cleanest and at least for me the most pro interface out there.

The new DP8, with it's skins is also amazing looking.

Logic looks like a cheap motel (but I use it daily).

Studio One looks like Mastertracks Pro from back in the 80s .

Cubase 7 looks really nice to me, but yeah can't lose bounce in place, or vari speed.

TH
#53
9th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bassman View Post
Its called Freeze in Cubase.
Does freeze create an audio track independent of the VI (like...you can get rid of the VI completely)?

If not, it isn't the same.
#54
10th January 2013
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"The same" depends on actual use case.
In Cubase, hitting freeze all vi and plugins pre fader will be rendered to the audiofile and inactivated. Thus releasing processing power back to the program. So if it is power control you need it's similarish.

BUT it is not the same as you can't just edit and manipulate that audio as any other audio (unless you import it in to a new track). Do it's not as flexible I that way as logic. But then otoh you can at any time un-freeze the track and adjust your rendered vi or plugins, edit the audio/midi (depending on type) and freeze again if necessary.

So if it will do the same is a matter of workflow and what you use it for.
I still would like to see bounce in place in cubendo.
#55
11th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikG View Post
"The same" depends on actual use case.
In Cubase, hitting freeze all vi and plugins pre fader will be rendered to the audiofile and inactivated. Thus releasing processing power back to the program. So if it is power control you need it's similarish.

BUT it is not the same as you can't just edit and manipulate that audio as any other audio (unless you import it in to a new track). Do it's not as flexible I that way as logic. But then otoh you can at any time un-freeze the track and adjust your rendered vi or plugins, edit the audio/midi (depending on type) and freeze again if necessary.

So if it will do the same is a matter of workflow and what you use it for.
I still would like to see bounce in place in cubendo.
What I'm getting at...is....after freezing, could you theoretically remove the plug in used on the track (say, a VI) from your plug ins folder, open the session ...and have it still play..as with a normal audio file? I don't want audio files tied to a particular VI plug in....
#56
11th January 2013
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This "feature" seems like some lame splitting of hairs. What's the difference between logics method and Cubase's bounce/import to track and pool feature. Anyway, I don't see the point in a 64bit OS. I havent had to freeze anything sine moving to 64bit and I'll stack up 150 tracks of virtual instruments in a large orchestral template.

File-Export-audio mix down
choose batch and specific channel
Choose import to track

Easy....
#57
11th January 2013
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Is there a way in Cubase to replace the audio file an event on the arrange page refers to? For example, say I'm making a drum beat using audio samples (but not via MIDI or a sampler - actually placing files on the grid) and then later I want to replace the kick drum sound with another sample, is there a way to easily do that in Cubase without having to redo the beat (delete the old kick events, redo the kick pattern with the new sample)? Logic doesn't have a way to do this, but PT and S1 do very easily.
#58
11th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
This "feature" seems like some lame splitting of hairs. What's the difference between logics method and Cubase's bounce/import to track and pool feature. Anyway, I don't see the point in a 64bit OS. I havent had to freeze anything sine moving to 64bit and I'll stack up 150 tracks of virtual instruments in a large orchestral template.

File-Export-audio mix down
choose batch and specific channel
Choose import to track

Easy....
Click Region
Right click "Bounce in Place"

Easier

No reason for a 64 bit system? Oh my.

Having to freeze instruments for CPU sake has nothing to do with it.
Committing VI's to audio is just smart.

I had Stylus as VI in a client's file once. Then Mac went to Intel processors. Guess what? Stylus was no longer compatible with my new Mac. And it wasn't compatible for over a year. So the part had to be replayed on something else when the client asked for a new mix six months in while Stylus wasn't yet working. Learned my lesson...everything gets committed to audio.

TH
#59
12th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oceantracks View Post
No reason for a 64 bit system? Oh my.
He didn't write that. I had to reread it to realise what he wrote.

Alistair
#60
12th January 2013
Old 12th January 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderman View Post
This "feature" seems like some lame splitting of hairs.

...

File-Export-audio mix down
choose batch and specific channel
Choose import to track

Easy....
It is about workflow just like anything else in a DAW.

This is what I would like in Cubase: Presonus Studio One 2.5 new features exclusive preview - YouTube

Alistair
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