For Elliot Scheiner: Steely Mixes

paultools · 12th November 2005

For Elliot Scheiner:

Some of us slutz have been debating for decades how much human and how much Wendell there is on the "Gaucho" album.

It is now the new millineum of Sound Replacer and Drumagog. Can you settle this once and for all? In particular for me, the drums on "Babylon Sisters" sound so clean and isolated... was there any trickeration involved in that mix? However you did it, it is maddeningly awesome-sounding!

Much respect!

scruffydog · 13th November 2005

Hi Elliot an Al Schmitt
Me too...these records and these sessions have held such an air of secrecy!
Such great work you have done..such a great legacy for us all..so many songs and tracks that We all love...
But the Dan sessions seem to set a new level of studio awareness and the stories become like chinese whispers until we never really know for sure who played what and stuff!

What was the studio vibe like..I seem to have an impression of a really tough date for the musicians who were dispatched without a word if the takes were not the one.
What was it like to work with them at their best..and worst (if you are at liberty to remember!)
As a frustrated drummer..I have to ask how it was to record the young Steve Gadd as he laid down some of the deepest grooves of the times?
Did he ever miss a beat?
Al Schmitt...Really enjoyed watching your interview on 'record production.com'
Vary best wishes.
Scruffydog

paultools · 13th November 2005

Scruffy,

In case you are not aware, there is a "making of Aja" DVD with Bernard Purdie, Chuck Rainey, Larry Carlton and the guys... it is required viewing for ALL IMHO.
Google it... found my copy at Best Buy.

Elliot Scheiner · 25th November 2005

Hi guys....Babylon Sisters was a live track with no replacements or punches. Bernard played it live and it had no edits. The Wendel tracks on the Gaucho were Hey Ninteen, My Rival and Glamour Profession. Bernard was always a pleasure to record. Never a problem for me to get isolation on his kit.
There were many incarnations of bands for the Gaucho. I'll bet that each song was played by 5 or 6 bands until they got what they wanted. In the Case of Gaucho, Jeffrey Porcaro recorded that and it took about 12 hours with Donald and Walter having left about 5 hours into it. Gary Katz believed that he could get a drum track from Jeff so the rest of the band stayed with that thought in mind. They all played just to give Jeff input. Victor Feldman left after about 10 hours. After the guys left there was another 6 hours of editing 2" tape. The good thing was that Donald and Walter loved ot so it made the effort worthwhile.
As far as I can remember, Steve Gadd played on only two Steely Dan cuts. (Aja & Black Cow) Two incredible performances and as you know, Aja was the first take.

Els

r0ck1r0ck2 · 25th November 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by paultools

Scruffy,

In case you are not aware, there is a "making of Aja" DVD with Bernard Purdie, Chuck Rainey, Larry Carlton and the guys... it is required viewing for ALL IMHO.
Google it... found my copy at Best Buy.

HOLY CRAP!!!!
gonna have to see that bugger...
thanks for the tip!!

paultools · 26th November 2005

OK, well I put down the sticks and headed to the other side of the glass out of frustration trying to play that groove as he played it.
Now I guess it's time for ANOTHER career change. I don't know how you did it!

In all seriousness, it is an inspiring recording and mix.
Thanks so much for sharing your time with us!

gainreduction · 26th November 2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elliot Scheiner

As far as I can remember, Steve Gadd played on only two Steely Dan cuts. (Aja & Black Cow) Two incredible performances and as you know, Aja was the first take.

Els

The last hit on the first "drum solo" part on "Aja"... is that the microphone he's hitting ???? Or the rim... sounds like he missed whatever he was about to hit but it sounds cool. thumbsup

scruffydog · 26th November 2005

I always notice how he hits his sticks together too!
I would imagine Steve Gadd on playback agreeing that ''things felt good enough to carry on''..and only one take too!!

kellyd · 27th November 2005

Have't listened to Aja in a while but if my memory serves me correctly it's a stick hit during the Gadd solo. K.

Elliot Scheiner · 28th November 2005

The stick hit is correct.

scruffydog · 28th November 2005

(Jeffrey Porcaro recorded that and it took about 12 hours)

Hi Elliot
So...any comments on that session?
Would that have been for one track or were there several tracks in that time?
Was it at all stressful?
When these guys were on a roll..what were the criteria for doing another take..?
I can imagine that they played it down again and again but I also imagine that each take was really special when the right line up was established..and the drum takes must have been very nearly identical.

Were you ever surprised at how world class players might come in to the session and just not hit the spot?..thus being rotated for another player...was each player just left free to bring what they could to the piece or was it heavily instructed?

The end results are pure magic..what sort of decisions were infront of you at editing,were there any 'happy accidents' or was the vision so complete it was simply following instruction..?

I wish I could find more in depth questions now you are here!
these records are magic to me..what a groove!!

Any further insight greatly appreciated!
Scruffy

12th November 2005	#1
paultools Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 2,238 Thread Starter	For Elliot Scheiner: Steely Mixes For Elliot Scheiner: Some of us slutz have been debating for decades how much human and how much Wendell there is on the "Gaucho" album. It is now the new millineum of Sound Replacer and Drumagog. Can you settle this once and for all? In particular for me, the drums on "Babylon Sisters" sound so clean and isolated... was there any trickeration involved in that mix? However you did it, it is maddeningly awesome-sounding! Much respect! __________________ We are creating enemies faster than we can kill them.

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13th November 2005	#2
scruffydog Lives for gear Joined: Jul 2005 Location: North London.UK Posts: 1,162 1 Review written	Hi Elliot an Al Schmitt Me too...these records and these sessions have held such an air of secrecy! Such great work you have done..such a great legacy for us all..so many songs and tracks that We all love... But the Dan sessions seem to set a new level of studio awareness and the stories become like chinese whispers until we never really know for sure who played what and stuff! What was the studio vibe like..I seem to have an impression of a really tough date for the musicians who were dispatched without a word if the takes were not the one. What was it like to work with them at their best..and worst (if you are at liberty to remember!) As a frustrated drummer..I have to ask how it was to record the young Steve Gadd as he laid down some of the deepest grooves of the times? Did he ever miss a beat? Al Schmitt...Really enjoyed watching your interview on 'record production.com' Vary best wishes. Scruffydog

25th November 2005	#4
Elliot Scheiner Gear interested Joined: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 15	Hi guys....Babylon Sisters was a live track with no replacements or punches. Bernard played it live and it had no edits. The Wendel tracks on the Gaucho were Hey Ninteen, My Rival and Glamour Profession. Bernard was always a pleasure to record. Never a problem for me to get isolation on his kit. There were many incarnations of bands for the Gaucho. I'll bet that each song was played by 5 or 6 bands until they got what they wanted. In the Case of Gaucho, Jeffrey Porcaro recorded that and it took about 12 hours with Donald and Walter having left about 5 hours into it. Gary Katz believed that he could get a drum track from Jeff so the rest of the band stayed with that thought in mind. They all played just to give Jeff input. Victor Feldman left after about 10 hours. After the guys left there was another 6 hours of editing 2" tape. The good thing was that Donald and Walter loved ot so it made the effort worthwhile. As far as I can remember, Steve Gadd played on only two Steely Dan cuts. (Aja & Black Cow) Two incredible performances and as you know, Aja was the first take. Els

26th November 2005	#6
paultools Lives for gear Joined: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 2,238 Thread Starter	OK, well I put down the sticks and headed to the other side of the glass out of frustration trying to play that groove as he played it. Now I guess it's time for ANOTHER career change. I don't know how you did it! In all seriousness, it is an inspiring recording and mix. Thanks so much for sharing your time with us!

27th November 2005	#9
kellyd Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2003 Location: Austin Posts: 1,243	Have't listened to Aja in a while but if my memory serves me correctly it's a stick hit during the Gadd solo. K.

28th November 2005	#10
Elliot Scheiner Gear interested Joined: Oct 2005 Location: Connecticut Posts: 15	The stick hit is correct.