Jazz Quartet Recording - Al Schmitt?

[jpupo74]

Hey,

New session coming up next week. Alto sax, piano, double bass and drums. I want to record them in the same room without isolation booths.

The double bass is my concern right now. I've always used omins for double bass on Jazz but leakage has always been a problem. Any techniques or specific placement to replace my omni?

I'll have lot's of ribbons dirung my session. Any one using room mics for Jazz?

Pupo

[bongo]

I've used an Audio-technica ATM-35 clip on mic with pretty good results. I attach it to the bridge and position it under the strings and aim it at the body.

An iso room works the better!

[jpupo74]

Originally Posted by bongo

I've used an Audio-technica ATM-35 clip on mic with pretty good results. I attach it to the bridge and position it under the strings and aim it at the body.

An iso room works the better!

I f we are talking about leakage it seems to me that the drums should be in it. Do you mean drums in ISO or double bass in it?

[Mike O]

A lot depends on your room size. You have to arrange the players so that you can utilize the nulls. But you need a room of a decent size to make this effect and liberal use of ribbons might make this harder.

A great question for guest mod Al Schmitt. No idea regarding the esthetic of what you are recording but he has some very nice sounds on the D. Krall records, regardless of what you think of the music Edit: I personally regard it very highly.

[jpupo74]

Originally Posted by Mike O

A lot depends on your room size. You have to arrange the players so that you can utilize the nulls. But you need a room of a decent size to make this effect and liberal use of ribbons might make this harder.

A great question for guest mod Al Schmitt. No idea regarding the esthetic of what you are recording but he has some very nice sounds on the D. Krall records, regardless of what you think of the music.

Hi Mike,

Thanx for your reply. Even if I had a huge studio room, I wonder if this will be good for the recording. I believe Jazz sould be recorded without headphones, all together in a room. I don't know if this is wrong, is just what I think.

Pupo

[Mike O]

Originally Posted by jpupo74

Hi Mike,

Thanx for your reply. Even if I had a huge studio room, I wonder if this will be good for the recording. I believe Jazz sould be recorded without headphones, all together in a room. I don't know if this is wrong, is just what I think.

Pupo

Not sure what you mean by, "I wonder if this will be good for the recording." I totally agree with you re: same room/no phones.

[jpupo74]

Originally Posted by Mike O

Not sure what you mean by, "I wonder if this will be good for the recording." I totally agree with you re: same room/no phones.

Hey,

I was talking about the vibe...wouldn't it be better for the musicians to be really close all together as in a small stage? Type of a jam situation?

Pupo

[Al Schmitt]

Originally Posted by jpupo74

Hey,

New session coming up next week. Alto sax, piano, double bass and drums. I want to record them in the same room without isolation booths.

The double bass is my concern right now. I've always used omins for double bass on Jazz but leakage has always been a problem. Any techniques or specific placement to replace my omni?

I'll have lot's of ribbons dirung my session. Any one using room mics for Jazz?

Pupo

Hi Pupo, I've been using two mics on the bass one on the f hole about 10 inches away and the other higher up nearer the fingering about the same distance. If you still have problems try taping a small mic hanging down under the finger board. Let me know how it works for you. Al

[jpupo74]

Dear Al,

First of all, thank you very much for your reply. I'm so happy we have you around here, and I'm also very happy to see that the first post was for my thread.

Jules should send me a T-Shirt because of this!

I used a 4006 in my last session. This worked really well because of my low response but the leakage was really a problem. I also used and old U87 aiming to the board.

When you say 2 mics, r we talking about omnis or cards? Both?

[jpupo74]

Originally Posted by Al Schmitt

Hi Pupo, I've been using two mics on the bass one on the f hole about 10 inches away and the other higher up nearer the fingering about the same distance. If you still have problems try taping a small mic hanging down under the finger board. Let me know how it works for you. Al

Hi Al,

Thanx for your response. I always used two mics but I recently changed my low mic due to the proximity effect and start using DAP 4006. When you say you use two mics, are they both cardioids? 8's? One omni and one cardioid?

Regards,
Pupo

[Mike O]

Originally Posted by jpupo74

Hey,

I was talking about the vibe...wouldn't it be better for the musicians to be really close all together as in a small stage? Type of a jam situation?

Pupo

I see; I was not clear. I was not suggesting that you move the musicians FAR, FAR away from each other. Only that the the size, as well as the design of the room effect how you can place the musicians. I find that often a larger room gives you more flexability, but that of course depends on it desgn and acoustics.

Some time ago I found a pdf that Al Schmitt posted a diagrahm of a D. Krall session. It was very interesting how he set up the musicians to eliminate some bleed by using non-omni mics and placing the musicians so that the nulls helped with isolation. Unfortunately I lost that pdf diagrahm and have tried to google for it many times to no avail.

It would be interesting to know what mics Mr. Schmitt might recommend in the two
positions in his advice to you.

P.S. When I posted earlier re: Mr. Schmitt "getting great sounds on a Diana Krall recording (no matter what you think of the music)" I did not intend this as any sort of negative comment on the music. My concern was that some jazz purists do not consider her records "jazz". Personally I own everything she has done. My apolgies to anyone (Mr. Schmitt?) who may have been offended.

[bongo]

Hi Al,
Great to see you on GS. I'm great friends with Benjy. He's done a lot of work over the years at my studio.

[nosebleedaudio]

Al,
What Mic and Pre do you normally use for Diana's vocals?
Her CD's are at the top of my reference CD list, the upright bass sounds wonderful also ...
Thanks for your time Al,
Mike, JMK Audio

[jpupo74]

Originally Posted by Mike O

Some time ago I found a pdf that Al Schmitt posted a diagrahm of a D. Krall session. It was very interesting how he set up the musicians to eliminate some bleed by using non-omni mics and placing the musicians so that the nulls helped with isolation. Unfortunately I lost that pdf diagrahm and have tried to google for it many times to no avail.

I wonder if Al have this diagrahm...

Originally Posted by Mike O

It would be interesting to know what mics Mr. Schmitt might recommend in the twopositions in his advice to you.

I know! I'm waiting for his response.

My interest is not WHICH mics, it's more about WHAT POLAR PATTERNS should be combined in the double bass micing setup.

Pupo


]

[Al Schmitt]

Hi Guys, For the guy who suggested moving the musicians further away, thats totally wrong, if anything move them closer together. The better they hear one another the better they play and they are not bashing to be heard. try them close and without earphones and see how that works. I've had good success like that. As for Diana, I use a U67 on her with a Martec pre or a Neve and I put her in a Summit and pull about 1bd. On the piano I use two M149s. Good luck to all. Al

[Al Schmitt]

Originally Posted by jpupo74

Hey,

I was talking about the vibe...wouldn't it be better for the musicians to be really close all together as in a small stage? Type of a jam situation?

Pupo

You have the right idea, it's all about the vibe.