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#31
18th August 2012
Old 18th August 2012
  #31
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That sounds awesome. Can't wait to see your pics.
#32
19th August 2012
Old 19th August 2012
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Alright, so I got one panel done. I'm going to make six this weekend. My worry that the non-rigid Safe'n'Sound batts I bought would make for a lumpy panel was not realized. They worked out great -- although incredibly itchy. Thanks cmcblues for being such a great help and model. Here's the making of some panels today:

Supplies:







Building:







Done:

#33
19th August 2012
Old 19th August 2012
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They look great, thanks for sharing your build with us! You sound link to that post in the "How I built my bass traps" thread.

How were the joints attached?

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#34
20th August 2012
Old 20th August 2012
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Thanks man! I attached the joints with some 90ยบ brackets -- 8 screws per corner of each frame and 4 screws attaching each side of the 2 connection beams. The frames are super sturdy.
#35
20th August 2012
Old 20th August 2012
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These look awesome! My burlap covered frames have 2 layers because my wife did not like that you could see the frame through only one layer. These look great. How are you attaching them to the wall?
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#36
22nd August 2012
Old 22nd August 2012
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cmcblues,

Thanks! I kind of like the look of the frame -- kind of retro. But, I can see your wife's perspective. I haven't actually hung them yet. But, when I do, I'll try 20-lb rated picture hangers and D-ring hangers as suggested by

How to Build Your Own Acoustic Panels (DIY) | AcousticsFREQ.com

However, I do need to put some panels on stands and on my ceiling. Do you have any recommendations/references for this?

How are your bass traps coming?
#37
24th August 2012
Old 24th August 2012
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mpitluk-

Your panels look great. I will check out the link for the hangers that you're using. I may at some point decide to hang my bass traps and I wanted to try something different. I saw a video on GIK Acoustics website about using D-hooks and wire to hang a trap in the corner.

My bass traps aren't finished yet. I finished one yesterday, doubling up the insulation inside the frame which is just barely not deep enough. I was able to compress the insulation enough to where it doesn't look TOO bunchy, but you can tell a little bit in some spots where it's a little lumpy. But the material is somewhat light so you don't really notice it. I will post more pics once I finish the other one. I did the first one somewhat hastily, hoping that my design idea would work alright. I wanted to make sure before I started documenting anything. I'll do pics of the next trap I make and possibly the cloud that is still left to build.

I will tell you I notice a big difference in bass response between the L and R speakers (I have the trap on the L side for comparison). It sounds tighter and somehow fuller, like I can hear more of the mix I guess. I haven't been in too many treated rooms but I guess I want to make sure I don't over-treat. I really didn't think a bass trap would do much difference as I don't use a sub-woofer but I'm learning new stuff everyday (like bass frequencies don't just come from subs-which I already knew, I guess I was just being naive). I'm looking at doing a room analysis once I finish the 2nd trap. My band uses a Driverack PA with an RTA mic that I will probably use, otherwise I'll buy the Behringer ECM8000 or Dayton Audio EMM-6. Does anyone have any experience with these mics?
#38
25th August 2012
Old 25th August 2012
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Awesome!! mpitluk
I could not get my wife to help me do this for anything..
but my daughter will help..

What are your lumber sizes and measurements?
1x3 for outer frame?
1x2 for inner supports?
And what were your measurements for cuts?
My guess..
1x3 @ 50" and 22"?
1x2 @ 22"

What were your fabrics of choice?
How many yards of each to complete your project?
I'm guessing 8-9yrds for the red stuff.
Not sure on the burlap looking stuff.

Should have know someone was going to ask ..LOL
Fantastic build!!!

I may have to cut the wood myself, because
I do not think my Lowes or Home Depot has the table type saw
like the on in the pic.
They just have the upright one for cutting panels, but its been a year since I have been home, so maybe they upgraded.
I am being lazy I guess. I have all the woodworking tools though.

Same way I am going to be building mine..
#39
25th August 2012
Old 25th August 2012
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If you're using the Safe n Sound, my vertical pieces measure 47" and the horizontal slats measure 24.5" with the inside braces measuring 23" (same width as the insulation batts). Mine were standard 1x4" boards. I gave a link for them a few posts ago on this thread. I put the short pieces on top of the longer ones and put 2 screws in each end along with a right angle bracket on each inside corner making sure they were all square. Then I put in the braces measuring 15" in from each side to the middle of each brace and used another 2 screws on each side of the brace. If you have it, a long clamp will help keep the brace flush while you drill pilot holes and put in the screws. There you have it! You just made a frame.
#40
25th August 2012
Old 25th August 2012
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I had allergic reactions to Roxul. Consider finding Knauf Ecose fiberglass, which is formaldehyde-free. This is the product GIK uses. While many in this site will argue that airing out rockwool is all you need to do, I personally would not want to sit in a small room with open faced formaldehyde products all day.
#41
25th August 2012
Old 25th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DozerMayne View Post
What are your lumber sizes and measurements?
Just to add as he already posted his lumber measurements;

Typical lumber is not the actual size it is called. 1x2s are not in fact 1" x 2" but .75" x 1.5"

The name's 1", 2", 3", 4" etc are the "nominal" sizes of the wood. In other words, before its been dried, planed, etc. The "actual" sizes account for the actual end product size. So if you wanted a full width of 24", you would need a 22.5" long piece and then the two .75" thick sides would account for 24" total.
#42
25th August 2012
Old 25th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasmira View Post
Just to add as he already posted his lumber measurements;

Typical lumber is not the actual size it is called. 1x2s are not in fact 1" x 2" but .75" x 1.5"

The name's 1", 2", 3", 4" etc are the "nominal" sizes of the wood. In other words, before its been dried, planed, etc. The "actual" sizes account for the actual end product size. So if you wanted a full width of 24", you would need a 22.5" long piece and then the two .75" thick sides would account for 24" total.
+1 to this. Sorry I didn't mention that before.
#43
25th August 2012
Old 25th August 2012
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I agree with headspin as well. I was originally looking at eco-friendly materials then I found the Roxul without doing much research and then just bought it without thinking it through that far.
#44
28th August 2012
Old 28th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DozerMayne View Post
What are your lumber sizes and measurements?
1x4 for outer frame -- I took cmcblue's advice and make the depth of the framing (4") slightly longer (by 1") than the Safe'n'Sound rock wool batts (3')
1x3 for the 2 supporting beams

Quote:
Originally Posted by DozerMayne View Post
And what were your measurements for cuts?
Vertical pieces (long pieces) = 48 7/8"
All horizontal pieces (short pieces) = 22 7/8"
Why the strange cuts? Given the way I connected the wood pieces, this cut fit very snug around the rock wool (my thumb is on the long 48 7/8" piece):



Quote:
Originally Posted by DozerMayne View Post
What were your fabrics of choice?
I purchased both fabrics at Jo-Ann Fabrics -- they usually have big sales.

The red fabric is just there to keep the mineral wool fibers from floating around -- not because they are dangerous, they are not -- but rather because they itch like crazy! I just looked for a cheap breathable fabric, i.e. you breathe into it and it doesn't move to much -- the air just flows through.

The burlap is great because of its breathability, low cost, and look.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DozerMayne View Post
How many yards of each to complete your project?
I made them 50"x70" for the burlap. I had to stretch the burlap vertically around the front (48 7/8"), top and bottom (8" total) and the thickness of the wood pieces to staple on the back (>2" total), so that makes about 58" total. I wanted extra room, so I added 6" to the top and bottom; thus 70" per panel and I cut off the excess. 50" is also more than enough to cover the sides -- you want a lot of extra to pull the burlap tight. The red fabric is tight, but just enough to trap the wool fibers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DozerMayne View Post
Should have know someone was going to ask
No problem!

For future panels, to maximize absorption, I'm going to cut out sections in the sides/top/bottom of the panel's frame. Idea shown here:

#45
28th August 2012
Old 28th August 2012
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Hey @cmcblues did you have to compress the rockwool to let it fit in your frame?
#46
28th August 2012
Old 28th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golitan11 View Post
Hey @cmcblues did you have to compress the rockwool to let it fit in your frame?
No I did not. It was snug but I didn't have to push it or force it. It was a perfect fit.

My bass traps, on the other hand, were made with 1x6's and the bracing in the back as well so on those I had to compress the foam a bit. Pics will be forthcoming.
#47
28th August 2012
Old 28th August 2012
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It would take way more screws and 8 internal corner brackets that are no wider than .75in because of
the way the 1x2's are laying., plus the ones
for the back braces...and more drilling, but..
Just an idea. May save a little on lumber.
Though could take even more time depending on your setup.
Cutting the holes with a jig may be faster..and make for a more sturdy panel.

Instead of cutting holes in the sides/top/bottom, what if you just used 1x2 to make frames.
So one side would have 2)1x2's connected together with about three short braces along its length.
One brace at each end, and one in the center.
Example using mpitluk photo..

The red is the actual 1x2's...

Then also use one or two 1x3's for braces along the back of the panel to hold the thing together better and for the safe'n'sound stuff to be held in
somewhat,(from side to side)


Arrows point to 8 corner brackets...
#48
28th August 2012
Old 28th August 2012
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I think I see the idea of what you're getting at, Dozer, but I think it would probably just be easier to make the frames and then put holes in them accordingly (if that's how you want your panels).
#49
29th August 2012
Old 29th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmcblues View Post
I think I see the idea of what you're getting at, Dozer, but I think it would probably just be easier to make the frames and then put holes in them accordingly (if that's how you want your panels).
Actually, I built my panels the exact way he's describing with 1x2s and it was pretty easy. Took awhile, but it was the cheaper route for me and I don't have the proper tools nor experience to try and drill holes all over the side. If I tried that it would look like termites ate my panels!

Hopefully this will give some insight to my build. I have a sketchup file I'll attach as well, showing the build of my 'open' 2x4 trap frames.





Attached Files
File Type: skp broadband-absorber-design.skp (157.8 KB, 25 views)
#50
29th August 2012
Old 29th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmcblues View Post
I think I see the idea of what you're getting at, Dozer, but I think it would probably just be easier to make the frames and then put holes in them accordingly (if that's how you want your panels).
I agree. That's what I'm going to do.

Also, not all of my panels will be wall mounted. I'm going to try to make some inexpensive mounts -- and if I am clever enough, I'm going to try to make them adjustable.

Pictures forthcoming.
#51
29th August 2012
Old 29th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasmira View Post
I have a sketchup file I'll attach as well, showing the build of my 'open' 2x4 trap frames.
That's great! I'm going to try a few that way. Good call on Dozer's part too, I didn't quite understand the design plan fully initially.

What are those thin vertical black lines on the first panel of your sketch up? strings/wire? multiple panels?

Do you plan on wrapping that corner bass trap with burlap/fabric?

Great pics. How did you make those sketchups? That seems like a very useful program and skill.

-- Thanks
#52
29th August 2012
Old 29th August 2012
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Those look awesome! Great corner traps, btw. Nice job.
#53
30th August 2012
Old 30th August 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpitluk View Post
What are those thin vertical black lines on the first panel of your sketch up? strings/wire? multiple panels?
My panels were built with 4 one inch thick sheets to make one 4" thick absorber. I actually got the insulation for free so I just made do with it. If I would have bought it, I would have just opted for 4" thick material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpitluk View Post
Do you plan on wrapping that corner bass trap with burlap/fabric?
Yes, they're already covered. I just wanted to test the room before I covered them. I actually only covered the two sides that face into the room, I left the other two open because if I ever had to adjust the insulation..it would be very difficult if they were completely wrapped.

All my panels are wrapped in Guilford of Maine's FR-701 acoustically transparent panel fabric. Expensive, but it's acoustically transparent, it looks really nice, has a tighter weave than burlap (so less fibers escaping), is 66" wide so you actually need less of it per trap, and most importantly: it's fire treated.

I do have two panels built with burlap on em and quite honestly, I really don't like the look. I also have two other panels built with microsuede...if I did any other panels that didn't have the Guilford on them, I would go with the microsuede...looks much much much better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpitluk View Post
Great pics. How did you make those sketchups? That seems like a very useful program and skill.
The program is made by Google, and it's called Sketchup. A very cool program that is really easy to use! And the tutorial videos Google puts out teach you how to use it really quick.

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#54
4th September 2012
Old 4th September 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasmira View Post
All my panels are wrapped in Guilford of Maine's FR-701 acoustically transparent panel fabric. Expensive, but it's acoustically transparent, it looks really nice, has a tighter weave than burlap (so less fibers escaping), is 66" wide so you actually need less of it per trap, and most importantly: it's fire treated.
I looked up the FR-701, and it looks nice. A little out of what I am willing to spend on fabric. Is burlap just as acoustically transparent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kasmira View Post
The program is made by Google, and it's called Sketchup. A very cool program that is really easy to use! And the tutorial videos Google puts out teach you how to use it really quick.
Just got it. Thanks! I'll let you know where I post the sketchup so you can feel free to comment.
#55
4th September 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpitluk View Post
I looked up the FR-701, and it looks nice. A little out of what I am willing to spend on fabric. Is burlap just as acoustically transparent?
Yeah, it is expensive. Though, because it is 66" wide you'll only need 1 yard per panel. With 48" burlap you'll need a bit over 1.5 yards per panel, depending on how thick the panel is.

Burlap is not as acoustically transparent, but for the most part still fine for covering panels if you need a cheap fabric. Remember that burlap is highly flammable so treating the fabric with a fire re-tardant spray is recommended. No one likes to think of their studio on fire but having flammable wood frames covered with flammable material is an unnecessary extra catalyst in the picture.

Can you find microsuede for a good price? It looks really good compared to burlap. Also your plain cotton broadcloth or polyester poplin look quite good too for a great price. I've ordered most of my fabrics from "Online Fabric Store" - really great prices. Unfortunately they don't carry GOM FR 701 (though they did for a small time...I asked them if they would be carrying it again and they said it wasn't likely). You can order swatches/samples from them to choose from. I got burlap, broadcloth, poplin, hemp, and muslin fabric samples from them. The hemp was great but expensive, the burlap was very loose fibered, and muslin didn't look that great. The broadcloth and the poplin looked fine though and come in tons of colors.

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#56
6th December 2012
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Killer thread, guys. Thanks to all for contributing and with such detail for us construction-challenged types.
#57
27th December 2012
Old 27th December 2012
  #57
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Post Design

I like the post frame idea, using maybe 1" x 1" or 1" x 2" strips for the outer runners with short wood strip braces in between at each corner, and somewhere along the center of each side. Two horizontal braces in the back like the OP used would be enough to keep the whole thing sturdy I think.

I wonder if using something like LiquidNails would be enough without using screws. If screws were used, would need to make sure and pre-drill the holes for the screws so the wood won't crack (always a smaller drill bit diameter than the screw diameter so the screw will still be tight).

Before one thinks about simply routing slots in the sides of solid 1" x 3" 's, might want to look at how much work is involved here...

Routing a Thru Slot Using an Edge Jig - YouTube

If you're building a lot of traps, you're going to need a few router bits, because they wear out pretty fast doing that. It would be less work to use a skill saw (fine tooth blade) for most of the cut length and then a router to finish the ends of the cuts.

Same problem with a hole saw blade; they wear out pretty fast.

So in my opinion as an experienced test facility craftsman/aircraft mechanic, the post-frame idea would be less work in the long run. Maybe not as sturdy as the OP's design, but less work than routing or hole-sawing slots in the sides.
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