I ran across a paper where the authors postulated that THC acts to change the RC time constant of the central nervous system by building up in the synaptic gap and basically changing the shape of the electrical pulses - reducing the peak height and increasing the peak width. The authors claimed that the sensory awareness that people (think they?) feel after taking THC was due to the central nervous system basically running overtime to interpret confusing data, since the sensory system has expectations of it's nervous system feedback loop.
Design for a proper Dubstep artist and you won't need the THC to feel a change in your RC time constant. Your brain Somas are all shaking in fear. So is the Control Room. Good fun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syncamorea
That's one I'd like to witness, however the airfare is not in my budget.
We're often in the US - and will be a lot in L.A. and NYC in the coming 3-4 months with likely a few stops in North Carolina (Asheville) and Tennessee as well, so that can happen there too. We're usually happy to meet new faces and have a good discussion if time allows.
On the other hand if the report is unjustified, then the reporter should be sanctioned.
This, plus 100. I'm currently banned from posting in all but the Acoustics sections here at GS because the mods got tired of people unjustifiably reporting my posts, when in fact they were the rude troublemakers and I was just calmly explaining the science of audio.
Design for a proper Dubstep artist and you won't need the THC to feel a change in your RC time constant. Your brain Somas are all shaking in fear. So is the Control Room. Good fun.
This, plus 100. I'm currently banned from posting in all but the Acoustics sections here at GS because the mods got tired of people unjustifiably reporting my posts, when in fact they were the rude troublemakers and I was just calmly explaining the science of audio.
--Ethan
Lol !!! my first serious thread and it is already a magnet for the worst banned gangstaz of the whole gearslutzforum.
Ethan you are so welcome, if Sheriff Tim agrees, post everything you like here, we could ask if we can change this thread into our own scientific philosophical self ruled tolerance anarchist eccentric freejazz birth of absurdest theory thread here.
Lol !!! my first serious thread and it is already a magnet for the worst banned gangstaz of the whole gearslutzforum.
Ethan you are so welcome, if Sheriff Tim agrees, post everything you like here, we could ask if we can change this thread into our own scientific philosophical self ruled tolerance anarchist eccentric freejazz birth of absurdest theory thread here.
Is it possible to edit the thread title ?
Ethan posts his other audio ideas on other online forums now. So is the norm for a lot of people...but sometimes it is a must to keep bickering down, even if he's not the one bickering.. Ethan is welcomed and allowed to post on all threads in the acoustic sections, though. Thank goodness.
Ethan, I'm not sure how your forehead felt after all those facepalms you must have suffered in the other forums on GS...haha!
You must ask a mod to change the thread title. If I ever need a thread moved or deleted or edited, I just report the post (my own post) and you can type in a description so the mods can see it. Not sure if there's a better way but it has worked well for me thus far.
Ethans video`s and easy explanations got me into this all, I appreciate his easy to understand explanations I found around the internet (also on other forums).
And I love his website.
That must sound like Bumlicking, but it don`t care.
Okay, if I find the time I try to change the forum title, but I have to get my savings and to the hardware store. Need more mineral wool
Lol !!! my first serious thread and it is already a magnet for the worst banned gangstaz of the whole gearslutzforum.
Somehow Ethan's avatar photo just doesn't look appropriatley gangsta. Ethan, please replace it with you holding a rabid pit bull and AK-47s draped across your back. And black out a few teeth while you're at it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTralala
That must sound like Bumlicking, but it don`t care.
Somehow Ethan's avatar photo just doesn't look appropriatley gangsta. Ethan, please replace it with you holding a rabid pit bull and AK-47s draped across your back. And black out a few teeth while you're at it.
We all kiss a bit of cheek every now and then.
Sir, with due respect...
I was talking about real Gangsta, not the 50 cent kind of Gangsta:
Last edited by SirTralala; 30th August 2012 at 12:13 AM..
Reason: EDIT: This is a real Bad Guy from an old James Bond Movie.
Thank you Thomas for those wonderful supportive and informative posts. Bookmarked!
To be clear, T and I do know each other, and do chat occasionally.
While many of our conclusions are the same, I will say that my views were formed before I became aware of Northward. My exploration and pondering probably followed the same trajectory though, in particular Newell. But my views were all intuitive, common sense (IMO). Newell's theories of how sound behaves simply make sense to me. As do those of Thomas, and Bogic. On the other hand, there is no way sitting on a couch at the back of an LEDE room, close to masses of diffusion, can deliver a useful listening experience.
Many thanks to the others for the support. Unfortunately I predict the scenario to play out again, as it has before. I will also say that 1/3 wrong plus 2/3 wrong has an obvious sum.
I have been working away with SirT via PM. I am quite happy to continue that or to contribute if David wishes to start a new thread, e.g. How to treat this difficult small room?
However, given the failure of the Massive fibre, then the MLV traps, and now a shiny new very interesting plan to bounce and diffuse HF around this tiny room, I suggest that there is a choice to be made between experimentation and treating the room to best effect within practical restraints.
Either path is fine by me, the experiments have been interesting and the new one certainly will be. My point is that the massive fibre, and the MLV, were not close to what anyone with tested experience actually recommended. Furthermore the measurements and interpretation of the results were not clear to me. Sometimes success needs zoom and focus to show itself.
So David, I wish you luck with our explorations and will help in any way I can.
I have already in PM recommended a straight and sure path to treating the room. But this can be repeated if you wish in this thread or a new one.
........ On the other hand, there is no way sitting on a couch at the back of an LEDE room, close to masses of diffusion, can deliver a useful listening experience.
Agreed, and I probably never see one without a couch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanDan
Many thanks to the others for the support.......
To be honest, I didn't believe that GS have a possibility to ban user from a single thread or only sub-forum... anyway, I didn't see a reason why to ban you... now is ok... we can continue... I hope.
I knew my Academic Studys at the Federal Academy for Social Work Vienna would be helpful one day, at least they help me surviving this forum !
But I have to say, I really like it here, we should keep this thread an open minded one, off topic postings allowed. And swearing is allowed !!! Girlish bickering is forbidden, it`s a mens` thread, women are welcome, frankenfurters are welcome too.
Okay, by now I have wrapped 16 !!! packages of mineral wool into plastic coated fabric, which means 5,5m3 of my 24m3 room ! + 2 panels (1m*1,2m) left and right for a bit of rfz (at least more then -20dB from the original signal). Two new smaller panels above my head, against early reflections (it works, but one of them is giving me a sharp gap, but only while single speaker testing). And I also have two more 1m*1,2m panels filled with mineral wool left. And some basotect. Tomorrow I can take some pictures to show you how it looks like.
I think, 400-450ms decay in the bass should be okay for this room, I don`t think the sound is too bad by now. Maybe I could build some special broadband absoption (not velocity) units for deeper frequencies, but I am not sure if this is needed.
A small couch, maybe yes, I could build one from the limb mass absorbers I f****d up, instead of building diffusors but couch is not necessary. It`s not for impressing people, if I wan`t to impress people, I borrow a friends studio, he has a huge mixing desk, siemens and stuff revitalized, and some neve rebuild channel this and that, and a lot of very cool vintage reverb units and great compressors, a revox tape machine, and a guitar amp which works with 16.000 volt and a spark that runs between two big antennas instead of a speaker, and a recording room which doors open and close with a pneumatic system.
But in my room, I do some inbox mixing. And have two pair of headphones which help, and it is also for learning+studying, like: "yeah I have a little room rented, I can try and **** up, as long as I don`t **** up the building itself, because it is not mine." but maybe one day, if I can afford it, I go and build a cool room, and should have been learning from mistakes I made in the small room (although I am 34, maybe it`s a bit late to start with mistakes I could learn from, on the other hand, I already made a lot of them, why not make some more, and start to learn from them ?).
I knew my Academic Studys at the Federal Academy for Social Work Vienna would be helpful one day, at least they help me surviving this forum !
.........
So, I am back with some pictures (unfortunately I forgot to take one where you can see the absorbers above my sweetspot).
Front corner left with mineral wool in the corner+basotect (found a little earlyrefl., so I put that here):
Front Corner right:
Front left - wall with velocity based absorber:
Back of the room mineral wool in the corner, velocity based absorber on the ceiling (but not above the sweet spot, this is the rear):
Rear, the other corner (this red thing is an additional absorber which I put in front of the door):
Same but different angle:
And this is a Prototype Class A Theta Wave Absorber, I build together with my girlfriend, but I don`t use it in the studio. Too many random variables which cannot be controlled (and should not try to be controlled) - and at least a project that didn`t fail:
I like my room, it reminds me when I was a child building hidings out of blankets and things I found, are you ready for my graphs then ?
Agreed, and I probably never see one without a couch.
For DIY in small rooms, best to leave diffusion until after the big problems have been controlled. Good diffusion is time consuming (and often expensive) to build, with potentially unsatisfactory results in very small rooms. Better to spend the time/budget on fixing the serious problems first. Same with space couplers, although they are slightly easier to DIY and often work really well on clouds or side walls.
A professionally designed solution (with a proper budget for the project) will likely include diffusion, but that's not what is being done in this case.
What I dont understand is the reluctance to try CBA/VPR in this case? It would be an elegant method.
For DIY in small rooms, best to leave diffusion until after the big problems have been controlled. Good diffusion is time consuming (and often expensive) to build, with potentially unsatisfactory results in very small rooms. Better to spend the time/budget on fixing the serious problems first. Same with space couplers, although they are slightly easier to DIY and often work really well on clouds or side walls.
From this perspective you're rignt... Worse problem in small room is LF treatment, and if this treatment is not good, diffuser contribution will be minimal (sometimes negligible). But after excellent LF treatment, room usually become anechoic, and it is virtually impossible to work in it... so diffusers is needed to bring back (good, diffuse) reflections in room... so we cannot abandon diffusers because they are too expensive, but we can postpone their realization.
People seem to forget, that Diffusion is not only used to broaden the Image etc., but also to avoid specular reflections, which shouldn`t be an underrated problem in small rooms. Everyone know, it is always a problem to overdamp the upper frequencies compared to the lows because of massive velocity based absorption.
And why is it so difficult to build a frame, with 8 laths of different depth compared to all that kind of pressure based, air spring panel absorbers people suggest, which must be sealed perfectly, mass density must be calculated etc. or a helmholtz resonator whichs construction might be ****ed up already if you don`t get the angle of your drill right.
And already mentioned, my position listener - back wall, is long enough to use diffusion, what is the problem with that ? The distance is long enough, based on scientific calculations which additionally have a foundation based on empirical research. And if you already started with velocity based absorption, you might have to (as boggy said) use reflective material to keep a little decay time, and why not diffusion instead placing some laths that cause specular reflection ?
Anyway, Graphs coming soon, I need a wireless lan point, you can start a little bickering then
What do you people think ? Please keep in mind -if you decide to value-, this is a room of only 24m3 volume.
Decay (0-120ms, 15ms steps):
And comments like "it looks like a tunnel", "I don`t like the wallpaper", "you should place a vase with spring flowers on your recording desk", keep it for your yourself. I need this room to work, and not to impress pussy.
but somehow you are right. It is like Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs Tunnel, we can talk about the wallpapers later, I am okay with that, but first the music, and then the wallpaper
Oh people, I am burning here, really. I put away the measuring microphone for the first time now, and listened to some songs, I so much would like to tell you the experiences I had, but I would like to hear what you think about the graphs I posted, don`t be afraid, I won`t be rude (as long as you don`t tell my how to paint the room).
... I would like to hear what you think about the graphs I posted ...
Would you mind posting the REW .mdat-file of the measurement that relates to the graphs? This way we are free to use the tools we're used to "looking" at your measurement.
... I would like to hear what you think about the graphs I posted ...QUOTE]
Would you mind posting the REW .mdat-file of the measurement that relates to the graphs? This way we are free to use the tools we're used to "looking" at your measurement.
Yes, of course !!! Thanks a lot for answering !
Just one moment, I just have to clean up and make a new file, it is a total mess...
I still want to go for the Gaps at around 380 and 550 Hz, I just cut some cords and marked them by tying them around screws at 1/4, 1 and 2 wavelengths, I thought this would be a good tool which could help me to figure out what could be responsible for that Gaps.
With the Bass I am quite happy - the Gap at 125 is still there, but it flattened a lot compared to the beginning situation, I think it is not that bad, as long as I know it is there.
I placed the Speakers so, that I can EQ down the low Boost a little. I would like to do this by inserting a VST Plugin into my DAW software, and tune it by hand (the Cut on the Speakers -Adam A7x - is not specific enough, and I don`t want to use any Software based room calculating EQ system, I think I have good picture now how the room response is, and I can also use reference music.)
From this perspective you're right... Worse problem in small room is LF treatment, and if this treatment is not good, diffuser contribution will be minimal (sometimes negligible). But after excellent LF treatment, room usually become anechoic, and it is virtually impossible to work in it... so diffusers is needed to bring back (good, diffuse) reflections in room... so we cannot abandon diffusers because they are too expensive, but we can postpone their realization.
Yes, that's exactly what I was suggesting, but with one caveat: making a room truly anechoic is extremely difficult and, as you correctly state, pointless, because humans prefer to listen to music in a space to derive the cues our brain seeks due to evolution. Even talking in an anechoic chamber is very strange....and if you sit in one long enough you can hear your body running as if you are wearing stethoscope! The closest most people get to anechoic listening is via headphones or earbuds, which isnt anechoic for a few reasons, but also isnt the same as listening to music in a room.
My suggestion was based ore on the practical issues facing the typical "DIY guy" - there is so much to learn, it becomes easy to be distracted by complexities which are not as important (initially) as controlling the big problems. If the budget is limited (money, time) then it makes sense to focus on the important bits first and not invest lots of time into things like diffusion until later. Once the main problems are controlled, it is (relatively) easier to add diffusion - much easier than planning and building it beforehand unless you are professional acoustician. In other words, it is better for a "DIY guy" to approach the problems in stages, rather than 'mentally designing' the entire system at once (which is what SirT was doing when I first said "why?")
With regard to this project, I havent suggested diffusion is not needed. What I have questioned instead is the cost/benefit analysis of planning for rear wall QRDs before the final topology of the room is known (ie before the major problems are fixed). It may be more sensible to (for example) spend the time/money on building space couplers, which can really help with the main problems. And of course there are many ways to derive useful diffusion....
People seem to forget, that Diffusion is not only used to broaden the Image etc., but also to avoid specular reflections, which shouldn`t be an underrated problem in small rooms. Everyone know, it is always a problem to overdamp the upper frequencies compared to the lows because of massive velocity based absorption.
No one said otherwise. Also, no one said "dont use diffusion". There are many ways to achive diffsuion.....and in very small rooms, it is best to determine what solutions might be most useful once you have finalised the topology of your main treatments.
With QRDs, it's one thing to say :there is enough distance" but it's another to say in advance "given the circumstances, QRD on the rear wall is the right solution" - that was my point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirTralala
And why is it so difficult to build a frame, with 8 laths of different depth compared to all that kind of pressure based, air spring panel absorbers people suggest, which must be sealed perfectly, mass density must be calculated etc. or a helmholtz resonator whichs construction might be ****ed up already if you don`t get the angle of your drill right.
Building useful VPRs doesnt have to be difficult - ask GE.
And comments like "it looks like a tunnel", "I don`t like the wallpaper", "you should place a vase with spring flowers on your recording desk", keep it for your yourself. I need this room to work, and not to impress pussy.
I very much doubt that was the reason for the "tunnel" comment (and others). Rather, it's about filling the room with huge cubes of absorption in the manner you have adopted.
You have chosen to consume a large portion of the room's space with velocity absorption. You could have done this more elegantly (and just as effectively) by confining the velocity absorption to spaces you can lose. But instead you have built something grotesque (at least to my way of thinking)......and this was almost certainly not necessary to achieve your goals, even if you only use velocity absorption.
For example, the floor and ceiling corners along the full length of each wall are good for superchunks and a full size ceiling cloud (ie false ceiling) would also be very effective and elegant.
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Ethans video`s and easy explanations got me into this all, I appreciate his easy to understand explanations I found around the internet (also on other forums).
anyway, I didn't see a reason why to ban you... now is ok... we can continue... I hope.
