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27th January 2012
| #1 |
| Gear Head  Joined: May 2009
Posts: 71
Thread Starter | Air flow resistivity for Isover Sweden
With the exception of the Marine products, the air flow resistivity numbers here are calculated, not measured, which mean they are more approximate than usual. The basis of the calculations are certain production parameters, and the calculations were done by a research engineer at Isover Sweden, which emailed the results to me. Note: Some products are declared with a range of densities. When the engineer calculated the numbers, she used the lowest density in the range as one of the many parameters in the flow resistivity calculation. Terminology: Air Flow Resistivity (in swedish: luftflödesmotstånd) is given in kPa*s/m2. – Air flow resistivity is the same as gas flow resistivity (GFR). – Pa*s/m2 is the same as Rayls (5000 Rayls is 5000 Pa*s/m2 , or 5 kPa*s/m2). I use the terms "air flow resistivity" and "kPa*s/m2" because this is the terminology used in the technical documentation I have read. The products are sorted according to their air flow resistivity value, lowest numbers first. Products with density and air flow resistivity data: Isover Piano Ljudskiva Density: 13-15 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: 7 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20785 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20984 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20787 Note: This product is declared with an air flow resistivity of 6 kPa*s/m2 (on the web page). According to the measurement and publication standard EN 13162 (used by Isover) it is required for the manufacturers to publish the lowest measurement of sound absorption and air flow resistivity: 4.3.11 Sound absorption "[…] No result of ap and aw shall be lower than the declared level." 4.3.12 Air flow resistivity "[…] The value of air flow resistivity shall be declared in levels with steps of 1 kPa·s/m3. No test result shall be lower than the declared value." Link: EN 13162 So, the manufactureres have several measurements of a product's air flow resistivity, and publish the lowest number. I've talked to both Isover and Rockwool tech support but no one seems to know how wide this range of measurements typically is. Isover Cleantec Plus Density: 35 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: 7 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/installationer/...sover+cleantec Isover ULTIMATE Piano Density: 13-15kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: 10 kPa*s/m2 (declared 9) http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=21062 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=21067 Note: When a product comes in both a "normal" and an "ultimate" version, the ultimate version have somewhat higher air flow resistivity than the normal version, even though the products have the same density. Isover Cleantec G35 Density: 35 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: 12 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/installationer/...sover+cleantec Note: See good bass absorption data for its sister product G100 at page 15 here: http://www.isover.se/files/Isover_SE...onskanaler.pdf Isover U Marine Roll MFN Density: 24 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: Equal to, or more than 12 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=22668 http://www.isover-technical-insulati...e85fd2dc6f.pdf Isover U Marine Roll MFA Density: 24 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: Equal to, or more than 12 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=22724 http://www.isover-technical-insulati...e85fd2dc6f.pdf Isover U Marine Slab MPG Density: 24 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: Equal to, or more than 12 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=22743 http://www.isover-technical-insulati...ac280a8426.pdf Isover Stålregelskiva 36 Density: 16-19 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: 13 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20945 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20773 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20770 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20871 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20971 Isover Träregelskiva 36 Density: 16-19 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: 13 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20772 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20776 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=21465 Isover UNI-skiva 36 Density: 16-19 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: 13 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20778 Isover U Marine Roll MFV Density: 36 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: Equal to, or more than 15 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=22727 http://www.isover-technical-insulati...e85fd2dc6f.pdf Isover U Marine Slab MPN Density: 36 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: Equal to, or more than 16 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=22697 http://www.isover-technical-insulati...ac280a8426.pdf Isover UNI-skiva 33 Density: 20-35 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: 18 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20841 Isover U Marine Slab MPA Density: 48 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: Equal to, or more than 25 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=22740 http://www.isover-technical-insulati...ac280a8426.pdf Isover U Marine Wired Mat 66 Alu1 Density: 66 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: Equal to, or more than 48 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=22687 http://www.isover-technical-insulati...38872db51f.pdf Isover U Marine Wired Mat 66 N Density: 66 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: Equal to, or more than 48 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=22685 http://www.isover-technical-insulati...38872db51f.pdf Isover Fasadskiva 31 Density: 50-60 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: 55 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=21008 http://www.isover-technical-insulati...ac280a8426.pdf Products with density values: Isover Light Träregelskiva 39 Density: 13-15 kg/m3 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20943 Isover Bjälklagsskiva P 36 Density: 16-19 kg/m3 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20774 Isover ULTIMATE UNI-skiva 37 Density: 16-19 kg/m3 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20780 Isover ULTIMATE Stålregelskiva 37 Density: 16-19 kg/m3 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=21050 Isover ULTIMATE Träregelskiva 37 Density: 16-19 kg/m3 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=21021 Isover Duo 33 Density: 20-35 kg/m3 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20817 Isover Installationsskiva 33 Density: 20-35 kg/m3 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=21019 Isover Skalmursskiva 33 Density: 20-35 kg/m3 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=22547 Isover Stålregelskiva 33 Density: 20-35 kg/m3 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20958 Isover Träregelskiva 33 Density: 20-35 kg/m3 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20930 Isover Fasadboard 33 Density: 120-125 kg/m3 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20764 How to interpret density values: There is a relationship between density and air flow resistivity, but it is loose, very non-linear. Generally, denser products means higher air flow resistivity, but with the same density, glass wool products will typically have higher air flow resistivity than stone wool products, and there are large variations in the density/flow resistivity correlation within these two main product groups, generated by other factors. A very rough understanding of the relationship between density and air flow resistivity can be derived from density/flow resistivity correlation graphs provided by the manufacturers. I have these numbers from Rockwool, Isover, and from an independent Norwegian construction research institution (Byggforsk): Air flow resistivity -------------------- : 5 kPa*s/m2 - 10 kPa*s/m2 - 20 kPa*s/m2 - 30 kPa*s/m2 - 40 kPa*s/m2 - 50 kPa*s/m2 Rockwool stone wool products: ------------- : 9-31 kg/m3 ----- 24-49 kg/m3 ----- 36-75 kg/m3 ---- 47-98 kg/m3 ------ 56-120 kg/m3 --- 64 -130 kg/m3 Isover stone wool products: ---------------- : 27-40 kg/m3 --- >50 kg/m3 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unspecified Nordic stone wool products --- : ------------------- 32-37 kg/m3 ----- 38-52 kg/m3 ---- 53-65 kg/m3 ----- 70-80 kg/m3 ----- 80-90 kg/m3 Isover glass wool products: ---------------- : 9-18 kg/m3 ----- 15-30 kg/m3 ----- 27-45 kg/m3 --------------------------------------------------------------- Unspecified Nordic glass wool products --- : ------------------- 13-27 kg/m3 ----- 33-45 kg/m3 ---- 47-58 kg/m3 ----- 65-75 kg/m3 ----- 75-85 kg/m3 Note: The graphs are hard too read with any accuracy, so don't take the numbers too seriously. But if you are interested in this, there are more information in the graphs than in the numbers displayed here. Be aware that when a manufacturer estimates the performance of competing products, it will be portrayed as "bad" as reasonably possible. Links to graphs: Rockwool: Rockwool flow resistivity/density correlation graph Rockwool Marine & Offshore Acoustic Manual (page 23) Isover: Isover flow resistivity/density correlation graph (page 9) Byggforsk (older, unspecified Nordic insulation products): Byggforsk flow resistivity/density correlation graph (page 6) *** If you have other acoustic data, relevant for Sweden, please share. |
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27th January 2012
| #2 |
| Lives for gear  Joined: Oct 2009 Location: Stockholm
Posts: 2,999
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Now that’s what I call a quality post! Here’s a conversion table for Paroc products: http://www.paroc.com/spps/BI_attachm...ance_table.pdf |
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27th January 2012
| #3 |
| Gear Head Joined: May 2009
Posts: 71
Thread Starter |
How do you use the table?
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27th January 2012
| #4 | |
| Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2009 Location: Stockholm
Posts: 2,999
| Quote:
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27th January 2012
| #5 |
| Gear Head Joined: May 2009
Posts: 71
Thread Starter |
Can't find any air permeability info on their web page. Probably have to talk to them..
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27th January 2012
| #7 | |
| Lives for gear Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 902
| Quote:
not relevant to me but great effort! | |
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27th January 2012
| #8 |
| Lives for gear  Joined: May 2004 Location: Hamilton, On Canada
Posts: 3,697
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Marvelous! Andre |
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27th January 2012
| #9 | |
| Gear Head Joined: May 2009
Posts: 71
Thread Starter | Quote:
PAROC UNS 39z Luftgenomsläpplighet 200 10-6 m2/sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 5 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true http://www.stenull.paroc.se/produktd...llanvaggar.pdf PAROC UNS 37z Luftgenomsläpplighet 130 10-6 m2/sPa - converted to air flow resistivity approximately 8 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true http://www.stenull.paroc.se/produktd...llanvaggar.pdf PAROC FPS 14 Luftgenomsläpplighet 50 x 10-6 m3/m²sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 20 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true PAROC WAS 50 Skalmursskiva Luftgenomsläpplighet 50 10-6 m2/sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 20 kPa*s/m2 http://www.stenull.paroc.se/produktd...oljud_WB09.pdf PAROC PreCast Luftgenomsläpplighet 45 x 10-6 m3/m²sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 22 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true PAROC ROS 20 Luftgenomsläpplighet 40 x 10-6 m3/m²sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 25 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true Paroc WAS 35tt Luftgenomsläpplighet 25 10-6 m2/sPa - converted to air flow resistivity approximately 28 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true PAROC ROX 2 Luftgenomsläpplighet 36 x 10-6 m3/m²sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 28 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true PAROC GRS 30 Luftgenomsläpplighet 35 10-6 m2/sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 28.6 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true PAROC ROS 30 Luftgenomsläpplighet 30 x 10-6 m3/m²sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 33 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true Paroc Rou 60 5 Luftgenomsläpplighet 25 x 10-6 m3/m²sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 40 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true PAROC WAS 25t Luftgenomsläpplighet 25 10-6 m2/sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 40 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true PAROC ROB 60 Luftgenomsläpplighet 15 x 10-6 m3/m²sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 67 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true PAROC ROB 80 Luftgenomsläpplighet 15 x 10-6 m3/m²sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 67 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true PAROC ROS 50 Luftgenomsläpplighet 15 x 10-6 m3/m²sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 67 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true PAROC ROS 60 Luftgenomsläpplighet 15 x 10-6 m3/m²sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 67 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true PAROC ROU 60 4 Luftgenomsläpplighet 25 x 10-6 m3/m²sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 40 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true PAROC ROV 60 1 Luftgenomsläpplighet 15 x 10-6 m3/m²sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 67 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true PAROC ROV 60 2 Luftgenomsläpplighet 15 x 10-6 m3/m²sPa - converted to air flow resistivity 67 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true PAROC Cortex Luftgenomsläpplighet equal to, or more than 10-6 m2/sPa - converted to air flow resistivity equal to or less than 100 kPa*s/m2 http://192.49.230.181/CSharpSite/ext...SE&public=true PAROC FAS 2 (Putsskiva 385-00) Luftgenomsläpplighet < 0,09 m3/m h Pa - this one I don't understand http://www.stenull.paroc.se/produktd..._2002_WB09.pdf | |
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27th January 2012
| #10 |
| Gear nut Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 77
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Bäste Hr Lindås, Det där var ju inte så jäkla skituschlig info att få reda på.  Or, in English: Great info!  |
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27th January 2012
| #11 | |
| Gear nut Joined: Aug 2008 Location: Sweden
Posts: 87
| Quote:
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1st February 2012
| #12 |
| Lives for gear  Joined: Jul 2010 Location: Skövde, Sweden
Posts: 939
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+2  |
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6th February 2012
| #13 |
| Gear Head  Joined: May 2009 Location: Västerbottens Län, Sweden
Posts: 48
| thanks!
Tusen tack!!!
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17th February 2012
| #14 |
| Gear interested Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 23
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TACK!!
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19th February 2012
| #15 |
| Gear interested  Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 16
|  schyrre
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28th February 2012
| #16 |
| Gear nut Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 110
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I haven't really understand yet tho... is it better to have high or low Air Flow Resistivity? Which is best for acoustic treatment of: Isover UNI-skiva 36 Density: 16-19 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: 13 kPa*s/m2 Isover or Isover Piano Ljudskiva Density: 13-15 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: 7 kPa*s/m2 Isover http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20984 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20787 |
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28th February 2012
| #17 |
| Gear nut Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 110
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I haven't really understand yet tho... is it better to have high or low Air Flow Resistivity? Which is best for acoustic treatment of: Isover UNI-skiva 36 Density: 16-19 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: 13 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20778 or Isover Piano Ljudskiva Density: 13-15 kg/m3 Air Flow Resistivity: 7 kPa*s/m2 http://www.isover.se/produkter/produktvisning?id=20785 Isover Isover |
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28th February 2012
| #18 | |
| Lives for gear Joined: Oct 2009 Location: Stockholm
Posts: 2,999
| Quote:
Porous Absorber Calculator V1.59  | |
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28th February 2012
| #19 | |
| Gear Head Joined: May 2009
Posts: 71
Thread Starter | Quote:
You have to decide how thick you can go. The thicker, the better, sound quality wise. If you go thick (above say 25 cm), you generally want low air flow resistivity. If you go thin (5-10 cm), you generally want high air flow resistivity. To find the frequencies that are problematic in your room, you have to calculate the room modes (the room's natural frequency boosts), or measure the room (measuring is the better, more accurate approach here). Free room mode calculator: http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm Then you have to decide which frequencies are relevant for your your recording. If you record bass in standard tuning, and bass drum, you want to control frequencies down to roughly 40hz. Guitars (in standard tuning), bass voice go down to ca. 80 hz. More instruments/voices here: The Hz's and dB's in Music - Mik Fielding When you must choose between different types of insulation, there is often a conflict between the type that work good in the low mids area and the type that work good in the bass area. This is an effect of different air flow resistivities. In addition to Jens' suggestion (which you'll need Excel to use), there is a free online calculator for air flow resistivity here: Porous Absorber Calculator You can mostly use the default settings, but choose Miki (recommended by the developer) and random incidence, then type in thickness in millimeters, and 7000 Pa.s/m2 for Absorber 1, then 13000 Pa.s/m2 for Absorber 2. You'll have a name for the resulting graphs if you fill in the "Legend" fields. Experiment until you reach a satisfying compromise. The higher the blue or green line gets, the more absorption you get, in that particular frequency area. | |
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