using r 30 on the ceilings

[PAPAYAMON]

just curious as to how you'd actually fasten unfaced R-30 to the ceilings?

assuming that i'd be covering 100% of the ceilings and walls... home depot sells 15 inch rolls. i would think it wouldn't be nearly as difficult with the walls. just nail at the top, run a bead of construction glue on the drywall, and cover with one big piece of cloth for the whole wall. gravity helps you. but on the ceilings?

[kasmira]

Just do the same thing, perhaps with a bit more glue. Get a spray glue/adhesive as I think it would work better than a fully liquid glue..

Aren't you building a room within a room? Why dont you just glue it to the ceiling before you put the ceiling up..

Could you please put all your questions into one thread from now on? A new thread every couple hours I think is giving some people a headache..No offense to you since I'm sure you don't mean it..But it would be easier to help you if we didn't have to track down all your info from these 10 different threads every time we want to read one of em..

[PAPAYAMON]

i would have a ceiling that's drywall and 10 feet high. how could you attach insulation and then put the drywall up? why would it matter if it were a new or old ceiling, or what was above?

and as far as getting them all together, i'm only asking hypothetical questions now.. i'll end up doing one of these things, but i don't know which till the next couple of weeks. when i actually to do the room, i'll post pics, etc. and all of that will be in one thread .

regarding this question, i've searched, and i can't see where anyone has comepletelycovered a ceiling with unfaced r-30. i'm hoping andre will answer this, because he's big on r-30 .

[kasmira]

I'm saying glue the R-30 to the drywall, wait for the glue to dry, and then put it up..

[amishsixstringe]

Wait...why are you putting r30 on the whole ceiling? I don't know your situation, but in most cases, I would think that is not the most effective/efficient method of treatment....


Neil

[kasmira]

Originally Posted by amishsixstringe

Wait...why are you putting r30 on the whole ceiling? I don't know your situation, but in most cases, I would think that is not the most effective/efficient method of treatment....


Neil

He's recording voice & video for use in instructional videos, I believe.

[PAPAYAMON]

yes, i'm making video instructional tapes. i was quite surprised to find people recommending more extensive treatment than for a music studio.

as far at r 30 on the ceiling goes, i don't see a practical way to do it. if you're covering the whole ceiling, it's going to have to be put on after you screw the drywall. i can't see how you'd put the insulation on first and then mount the drywall while you're up 10 ft on a ladder. on top of that, covering it with cloth seems pretty impractical.

i'm leaning toward r 30 insulation on the walls and 4 inch thick 8 lb rockwool for the ceiling (wrapping the individual 2 x 4 ft pieces in cloth, then screwing to the ceiling - simple and easy even up 10 ft.).

i'm using 8 lb rockwool because that's what i can buy locally without much hassle. i had 4 lb rockwool recommended by rod but i can't get it without special order, freight, etc.

picking up supplies on monday, will build out over the next few weeks. as suggested, i'll keep it all in one thread with pics. .

thanks for the opinions guys. this forum has helped me immensely.

[avare]

Originally Posted by PAPAYAMON

i'm leaning toward r 30 insulation on the walls and 4 inch thick 8 lb rockwool for the ceiling (wrapping the individual 2 x 4 ft pieces in cloth, then screwing to the ceiling - simple and easy even up 10 ft.).

i'm using 8 lb rockwool because that's what i can buy locally without much hassle. i had 4 lb rockwool recommended by rod but i can't get it without special order, freight, etc.

A good option for installing the material. Did you ask for Rockwool specifically? The generic description for the material (acoustically similar) is 4 lb/ft³ mineral wool insulation and 3 lb/ft³ glass fiber insulation.

Trademarked names make it awkward. Fiberglas, despite being quite accurate as a descriptor, is a trademark.

Congratulations on going forwaard the right way. I was concerned for a while that you going wrong.

Happily,
Andre

ps: I love papaya juice. Unfortunately it is difficult to get where I live.

[avare]

Originally Posted by PAPAYAMON

i was quite surprised to find people recommending more extensive treatment than for a music studio.

I am not clear on what surprised you. If you have followed music recording studio designs and analyzed the cost, you know that absorption is a fraction of the cost diffusion. You could easily spend 75$/ft² for diffusion. How much are you calculating the absoprtion cost per ft²? It is a bargain in comparison.

Andre

[PAPAYAMON]

Originally Posted by avare

I am not clear on what surprised you. If you have followed music recording studio designs and analyzed the cost, you know that absorption is a fraction of the cost diffusion. You could easily spend 75$/ft² for diffusion. How much are you calculating the absoprtion cost per ft²? It is a bargain in comparison.

Andre

i am approaching this from a lay person's perspective. when i saw music studios i'd see partial wall treatments. not treatments blanketing the entire walls. so i was thinking i'd hang a few things in the corners and on the walls, and all would be ok.

i'm very impressed that you can spend a fortune here. it should be pretty obvious that i've gotten a big education, and now realize i'm getting off cheap if i spend 5k on this room. of course, i've still got a plywood floor, and there could be more left to do.

i'm going to make sure i've got the right isolation before i apply the inside room treatments. i might end up with another layer of drywall/green glue .

i'm left in awe of how much there is to know with music studio design. it's an entire world i didn't even know existed. fortunately, for me it's a downhill run after i get the studio in acceptable shape.

if i did it again? you can bet i wouldn't have started with a tin can (essentially what a steel building is). but alas, it's like anything else you do. easy to get in, hard to get out of.

[swinenorth77]

lets say the r30 you wanna install on the ceiling is around 3 or 4 inches. if you are just trying to soundproof the room why not build a false ceiling 4 or 5 inches down from the existing (10 foot ceiling) stuff the roxul in, then drywall it. this would give you a finished drywall ceiling, with the sound seperation, i'm not sure if you're more asking about the treatment on the surface of the drywall?


newbie studio guy with a vast knowledge of wall and ceiling construction and associated materials.

[PAPAYAMON]

Originally Posted by avare

A good option for installing the material. Did you ask for Rockwool specifically? The generic description for the material (acoustically similar) is 4 lb/ft³ mineral wool insulation and 3 lb/ft³ glass fiber insulation.

Trademarked names make it awkward. Fiberglas, despite being quite accurate as a descriptor, is a trademark.

Congratulations on going forwaard the right way. I was concerned for a while that you going wrong.

Happily,
Andre

ps: I love papaya juice. Unfortunately it is difficult to get where I live.

hey i really appreciate your input andre. that went a long way toward helping me to realize what i've got to do if i'm serious about this at all.

and i'm using rockwool as a generic term. even the people i'm buying it from called it that - though the iig website calls it "mineral wool". i'm buying the 8 lb for the ceiling because they don't stock 4 lb, and the only way to get it is to buy 5,000 square feet, which is the minimum special order. so 8 lb it is .

still, the absorption coefficients look pretty good. all in all, this room ought to eat the sound up .

and fresh papaya is the bomb. unfortunately, i am in an area where the sub climate is very cold, and all my warmer weather trees (my oranges and papayas) all got killed last winter. it's more energy than i have to replant them. i'm pondering a move south in the next few years...

in the meantime, i'm going to stay right where i built this studio, and learn the art of producing teaching video/software. i've got this place paid off, and i can live here so cheaply that i can take a real shot at this learning this business. my life has been such that i've either got money or time... but never both. i'm finally reaching a point in my life where i'll have enough to of both to do something i find very creative and fulfilling.

[PAPAYAMON]

Originally Posted by swinenorth77

lets say the r30 you wanna install on the ceiling is around 3 or 4 inches. if you are just trying to soundproof the room why not build a false ceiling 4 or 5 inches down from the existing (10 foot ceiling) stuff the roxul in, then drywall it. this would give you a finished drywall ceiling, with the sound seperation, i'm not sure if you're more asking about the treatment on the surface of the drywall?


newbie studio guy with a vast knowledge of wall and ceiling construction and associated materials.

the first thing to do is make sure i've got acceptable isolation before i apply the wall/ceiling treatments. if it's not acceptable, i'd agree there is more to do. i can't give up the 10 ft height (actually 9 ft 8 inches after mineral wool treatment). i'm hoping i can get away with a coat of green glue if it comes to that. otherwise, there are things i can do, but it's going to be a lot more work/expense than i want to do and it's more complicated than i can explain here. i'll post pics when i start this, and they should tell the story pretty well.

and the ceiling r-30 would be applied outside the drywall, and only covered with sound transparent cloth. it's for sound absorption (dealing with noise i create inside), not sound separation (noises created outside). i am treating my walls just this way, however... drywall with unfaced r-30 covered with cloth for sound absorption.

[PAPAYAMON]

i've been talking around a bit, and it's obvious to me that i've also got to plan for a light grid, which means that there's more cyphering yet .

i bought lights on stands, and now i'm being told if i don't also have a way to mount to the ceiling, i'm going to regret it.

i've also decided to make the box bigger at 27 x 23 feet. now i'm thinking 7k instead of 5k .

[avare]

Originally Posted by PAPAYAMON

i've been talking around a bit, and it's obvious to me that i've also got to plan for a light grid, which means that there's more cyphering yet .

i bought lights on stands, and now i'm being told if i don't also have a way to mount to the ceiling, i'm going to regret it.

i've also decided to make the box bigger at 27 x 23 feet. now i'm thinking 7k instead of 5k .

Congratulations. You have mastered my signature line.

Happily,
Andre