SE reflexion filter ... anyone used this ?
Old 4th April 2006
  #1
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Thread Starter
SE reflexion filter ... anyone used this ?

Doing a lot more mobile recording stuff recently ... most of the time the spaces aren't that good ... was looking @ this http://www.seelectronics.com/rf.html

Anyone tried it ?

Does it work ?
Old 4th April 2006
  #2
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No. Haven't tried it. I'm skeptical of that, though. I think there were some other threads on that too... maybe in the new product alert forum? Why not just stand-mount some 703 panels? There's also something @ modtrap.com that says it's coming out in march 2006 (but nothing there yet) that i've been checking back on. That may (or may not) be something usefull...
Old 4th April 2006
  #3
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Looks like it's made to make poor stupid home-recording guys pay a lot of money for something they don't need.
Best thing if I get too strong reflections from the back: Get another room
Second best thing: Get another mic. Preferrably a Neumann or Schoeps SDC instead of an SE LDC.
Third best thing: put up 703 or even just a blanket behind the mic. But not that silly expensive thingy.
Old 4th April 2006
  #4
I have one on loan.. but it will be a while before I get to use it personally..

Will report back..

I like the idea a lot..
Old 7th April 2006
  #5
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkautzsch
Looks like it's made to make poor stupid home-recording guys pay a lot of money for something they don't need. Best thing if I get too strong reflections from the back: Get another room Second best thing: Get another mic. Preferrably a Neumann or Schoeps SDC instead of an SE LDC. Third best thing: put up 703 or even just a blanket behind the mic. But not that silly expensive thingy.
Poor Stupid Home Recording Guys?
So I guess all Pro Studio owners are all smart and rich?
Old 7th April 2006
  #6
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dirren's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkautzsch
Looks like it's made to make poor stupid home-recording guys pay a lot of money for something they don't need.Best thing if I get too strong reflections from the back: Get another room
Second best thing: Get another mic.
I'd say this product is probably designed for the people that do not have the option of another room or other forms of improvement. Never tried it myself though.

/D
Old 7th April 2006
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirren
I'd say this product is probably designed for the people that do not have the option of another room or other forms of improvement. Haven tried it myself though.

/D
Alright, OK, you win
Old 7th April 2006
  #8
I can see these being used in the PODcast arena, Broadcast arena, and as a portable vocal booth that kudzu is considering. Might be interesting to try it on acoustic guitar and maybe even in front of a guitar amp. Wind Instruments too.
Old 7th April 2006
  #9
Gear addict
 

It's not yet on sale here in the Netherlands, but i'd like to try it. I think it's a good (although not very new) idea. It might be a bit expensive, but on the other hand it's probabaly not so easy to build a good looking one yourself...

Hans
Old 7th April 2006
  #10
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I have spent a day or so with one, and made some various (admittedly very simple) recordings with a Reflexion. Do you all want to listen to my files, maybe compare for yourselves? I did some basic speech tests in my bedroom (not my usual recording location, but the obvious target market that SE would have in mind) with the shield in 4 different positions, one with the shield absent. The second test was placing a mic in front of a monitor in the same room, one file is with the reflexion, the other file without. These tests show that the unit works, but it could benefit from working in conjunction with other mic/room treatments. It was a fun exercise none-the-less. Oh yeah, took photos of the setups, shows the mic stand mount it comes with too.

Should I post them in this thread, or start another? I cannot post the files tonight, as I am on dial-up at home. I have broadband at work tomorrow, and can post them from there. All AIFF's, 24bit, 44.1khz. No compression, quite raw. If it interests anyone, just drop a reply.

I did this test as I work as a gearpimp, and customers quite dig this sort of thing. Plus, I just love testing new gear!

Anyway, if you dig, drop a post!

sh.
Old 7th April 2006
  #11
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Rogervandeberg's Avatar
 

I am interested!
Old 8th April 2006
  #12
Gear interested
 

sE Reflexion Flter

Hi all, James from sE here...

It never ceases to amaze me how people will slate a product without using it!

It took us 18 months of development to get the RF to market.... I wish it was as easy as some are making out! There's a good reason no-one has managed to get a mass produced product like this to market before now... it's damn hard to get it to work better than some 'silly expensive thing'! ;-)

The biggest problem is that if you get any uneven absorption frequencies it colours the sound of the mic... that's bad of course unless you are tring to create an effect. Then you have to get something this small to actually be effective at absorbing low frequncies as well as high... If you make your own you'll soon find the problems!

Anyway, no pitch meant, it just annoys me when we work so hard to get innovative products to market and people knock the idea down without actually trying it themselves... as always, you guys are welcome to try our products free of charge so you never have to be worried about being ripped off... I'd welcome you to do just that and THEN comment on whether it works or not... you know where to find me!

So far, they are already being used by BBC Radio (Richard Allinson) for voice over work, along with many big name engineers and artisits (Donal Hodgson.. Sting's engineer, Steve Levine, Midge Ure, Micael Choi from Canalot... the list goes on!). We've just had the first Audio Media UK review by Jerry Ibbotson, whch raves about it also... it'll be up on the sE site very soon. Detailed info on construction of the RF is up on the site already.

As for being expensive... it's only £200 inc/$300 ex! It's MUCH more effective than currently available off the shelf foam kits for walls, portable (ie you don't have to glue it in place!), Fire ******ant, and treats more than just high frequency. It's made using 5 Kg of brushed Aluminum and Steel amongst other things, so it's not cheap to make either!

BTW... I'd like to thank Supaheef (whoever you are!) for actually trying the RF and making files available to people... cool... thank you!


If any of you fancy doing this and submitting the results to us for the sE site, that would be very cool. We thought of doing it ourselves, but worried that people would just think we rigged the results!

Anyway, as always, thanks for giving the product air time... I hope we get some more people using it and then the talk will really start in earnest!

Cheers

James

james AT sonic-distribution.com
Old 8th April 2006
  #13
Jai guru deva om
 
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James I can't wait to try them, I want two so I can use with figure 8 ribbons on drums. We are eagerly awaiting them here in the states.

War
Old 8th April 2006
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warhead
James I can't wait to try them, I want two so I can use with figure 8 ribbons on drums. We are eagerly awaiting them here in the states.

War
That's a great idea indeed!
Old 8th April 2006
  #15
Engineer, Donal Hodgson has done a review of the Reflexion Filter on his website.
It's under the "Reviews" section at http://www.donalhodgson.com/
HSG
Old 8th April 2006
  #16
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noiseflaw's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by James_SE
Hi all, James from sE here...
It never ceases to amaze me how people will slate a product without using it!
Welcome to gearslutz!

Anyway's I wish you had brought this out a few years ago - but good on ya, It is a great idea.
Old 8th April 2006
  #17
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this looks like something that could be cool. but.....if its more than 100 bucks, i wouldn't buy one. i'm thinking i'm just going to hang a blanket from the ceiling.
Old 9th April 2006
  #18
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Right, I'm beginning to see where the Reflection Filter can make sense except in bad rooms.
Don't think I'll need one though - so far the blanket has worked fine, and the recordings I'm heading for are more like Schoeps & Neumann in great room that has been selected for precisely the music that is to be recorded.
Didn't want to insult anybody
Old 11th April 2006
  #19
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I need one. Can't find it in the US. Did a search and it seems only the blu-ee Brits got em.
Old 18th April 2006
  #20
Gear interested
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by supaheef
I have spent a day or so with one, and made some various (admittedly very simple) recordings with a Reflexion. Do you all want to listen to my files, maybe compare for yourselves? I did some basic speech tests in my bedroom (not my usual recording location, but the obvious target market that SE would have in mind) with the shield in 4 different positions, one with the shield absent. The second test was placing a mic in front of a monitor in the same room, one file is with the reflexion, the other file without. These tests show that the unit works, but it could benefit from working in conjunction with other mic/room treatments. It was a fun exercise none-the-less. Oh yeah, took photos of the setups, shows the mic stand mount it comes with too.

Should I post them in this thread, or start another? I cannot post the files tonight, as I am on dial-up at home. I have broadband at work tomorrow, and can post them from there. All AIFF's, 24bit, 44.1khz. No compression, quite raw. If it interests anyone, just drop a reply.

I did this test as I work as a gearpimp, and customers quite dig this sort of thing. Plus, I just love testing new gear!

Anyway, if you dig, drop a post!

sh.
yes, I'd very much like to hear those files if you get a spare moment to post them - cheers!
Old 18th April 2006
  #21
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Hi guys,

Sorry the files have taken so long. They are all done, but my first upload took ages, then I have to make sure I don't get too much grief for spending work time hangin' out here! THEN, I had my iPod stolen, which is how I carry my files around between studio and work. As soon as I catch one of my neighbours wireless networks unguarded they will be posted in a jiffy!

I just hope it's worth the wait, will try on my day off tomorrow.

sh.
Old 18th April 2006
  #22
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warhead's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by d.dot
I need one. Can't find it in the US. Did a search and it seems only the blu-ee Brits got em.
They "should" ship by end of month here in the US.

War
Old 19th April 2006
  #23
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Free Internet!

One of the benefits of the clustered living conditions of London, someone's living nearby has gotta have an open network sometime. tee hee hee.... So whilst downloading lots of porn, I figure i should also upload these promised Reflexion recordings.

Okay, the day I did these I was a little under the weather vocally (as you will be able to hear) so no singing I'm afraid. Instead I set the Reflexion up in my little London bedroom (to simulate the usual setting a likely Reflexion user might be trying to control) with an AT4047, through a SCA N72, into Logic at 24/44.1. All the details don't matter so much, the exact same chain was used for all recordings. With the screen in 4 different positions, I said the same phrase (at the obvious volumes) into the AT4047 from the same distance. The phrase is:

"this is me speaking at a normal volume, this is me speaking at an excessive volume, this is me speaking at close to a whisper"

I stood about 8 inches from the mic for the normal volume phrases, about 12 inches for the excessive volume phrase, and about 4-6 inches for the whisper. This was done to best simulate a vocalists movements as their volume changes. Well, a well- trained vocalist...

The 4 positions are No Screen, Distant Screen (mic positioned outside the curve of the screen) Close Screen (mic positioned about 1-2 inches inside the curve of the screen), and Very Close Screen (mic positioned so the shock mount was touching the back of the screen). I took some photos of a few of the positions, and of the industrial looking mounting system that comes with the Reflexion.

If you open a project in the DAW of your choice, set to 90bpm, then all the normal volume phrases will start at bar 2, excessive volume at bar 4, and whispers at bar 6. This will make cutting them up for direct comparison of positions much easier.

This files are un-dithered, 24bit, mono .AIFFs. The first three files (with screen) are in this post, the file with no screen will be in the next post. Then I will post the next test...

sh.
Attached Files
File Type: aif Voice Distant Screen.aif (1.57 MB, 5396 views) File Type: aif Voice Close Screen.aif (1.57 MB, 5076 views) File Type: aif Voice Very Close Screen.aif (1.57 MB, 4753 views)
Old 19th April 2006
  #24
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The other file, with no screen in place.

And some photos too. Dig that mounting system. Full report on how I found the system to follow after the next test is posted.

Love my bedroom!

sh.
Attached Thumbnails
SE reflexion filter ... anyone used this ?-reflexion-close.jpg   SE reflexion filter ... anyone used this ?-reflexion-distant.jpg   SE reflexion filter ... anyone used this ?-reflexion-mount-front.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: aif Voice No Screen.aif (1.57 MB, 4015 views)
Old 19th April 2006
  #25
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Test Number 2.

To assess any tonal difference when using the screen, I decided to place a microphone (again, my AT4047) in front of a monitor, and record a mono music source similar to the voice test.

The song is Subtle N Fine, by Australian band Elation. All the band are great mates (apparently I'm the 8th member of the group!), and won't mind me using their song for this test. They are just about to release the first single from their new album, so head to www.elation.com.au to check it out.

Microphone was placed about 18 inches from the speaker, in the same room as the Voice test. Two recordings were done, one with the Reflexion Screen in the close position, the other with no screen. I also did a mono bounce of the original file for comparison.

I chose this song for not just for copyright reasons, but also because it is quite dynamic too. The vocal is very prominant, and there is a break section about 2/3rds of the way through that really brought out the room noise. The files are mono MP3, at 160/320kbps (mono/stereo) (VBR) converted directly from Logic. Despite the reduced size, I think it still shows the differences quite well.

Full review on my tests, and conclusions to come, but let me know what you thinks. Great to see Se are watching this thread too, it's always good when a manufacturer cares about the product enough to dive in the water with its users.

sh.
Attached Thumbnails
SE reflexion filter ... anyone used this ?-reflexion-speaker-test.jpg  
Attached Files
File Type: mp3 SNF Orig Mono.mp3 (1.45 MB, 4118 views)
File Type: mp3 SNF Close Screen.mp3 (1.44 MB, 4519 views)
File Type: mp3 SNF No Screen.mp3 (1.44 MB, 4149 views)
Old 19th April 2006
  #26
Gear addict
 

Hmm, could these things be used to control bleed in a live band in one room situation?
Old 19th April 2006
  #27
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kudzu's Avatar
 

Thread Starter
thanks Supaheef ... comparing the Voice Close Screen to the Voice No Screen, it does seem to work ... quite a noticable reduction in room ambience ... was there any dampening behind you ? ... where you backed into a corner ?
Old 19th April 2006
  #28
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Matti's Avatar
 

Seems I need one too!
Thanks!
Matti
Old 19th April 2006
  #29
Gear Head
 

How does it compare to the foam screen in Auralex xpander kit - does anyone have the possibility to make a comparison?
Old 19th April 2006
  #30
Gear interested
 

Excellent effort, supaheef - much appreciated.

From those vocal samples it does seem to offer a decent improvement over no treatment. Probably best used in conjunction with other conventional room treatments as well I guess.
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