Does positioning your speakers higher than needed + angled pose advantages?

[aquinox]

Hi, I was thinking whether speakers placed higher and angled so the tweeter would be still aiming at ear level would give advantages, and came up with these:

1: The speaker will have less interaction with desk with gear which is slightly in the path of the speaker

2: The distance from speakers to wall will be bigger, resulting in lower room modes and lower standing waves.

Am I right? Does it have any other advantages? disadvantages?

[DrFrankencopter]

Funny, I think you'd be better off putting the speakers lower, and angling them up towards the ears. This takes many of the desk reflections out of play by increasing the angle of incidence.

Also, moving your speaker location will not change room modes (they are a function of your room's dimensions & construction)...but will have some impact on how easily excited they are.

Cheers

Kris

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by aquinox

Hi, I was thinking whether speakers placed higher and angled so the tweeter would be still aiming at ear level would give advantages

The problem with angling speakers up or down is that changes the axis as you move your head forward and back. And that in turn changes the frequency response you hear at mid and high frequencies. So it's best to have the tweeters at ear level, and avoid desk reflections other ways.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts

[DrFrankencopter]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

The problem with angling speakers up or down is that changes the axis as you move your head forward and back. And that in turn changes the frequency response you hear at mid and high frequencies. So it's best to have the tweeters at ear level, and avoid desk reflections other ways.

--Ethan

________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts

Nice catch...

Maybe it would be okay for mid-fields, where your angular motion will be small WRT to the driver dispersion. Probably not worth the effort though. Besides, the tops of speakers are perfect places for beer and/or lava lamps; and if you angle them that stuff will just just fall off!

Cheers

Kris

[avare]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

The problem with angling speakers up or down is that changes the axis as you move your head forward and back. And that in turn changes the frequency response you hear at mid and high frequencies. So it's best to have the tweeters at ear level, and avoid desk reflections other ways.

+2!

Andre

[aquinox]

Thanks for the tips. I will also steer away from the auralex mopads then because I was going to use them for angling my speakers.. but will have less stable speakers as result and besides to decouple my speakers Focal gave me a few rubber droplets which I can use for that last purpose

[Paul G]

Originally Posted by aquinox

...and besides to decouple my speakers Focal gave me a few rubber droplets which I can use for that last purpose

I used two old Fellows brand hard foam keyboard wrist rest pads for decoupling my monitors. Split them in half and it works great.

[ggegan]

With so many systems being computer based and employing monitor screens at the console, the advantage of high mounted speakers angled down is that the sound path from the speaker to the ears is less obstructed. Yes, it presents a problem for situations where listeners are located at different distances, but for the mixer sitting in the sweet spot, the sound is improved significantly. For Film and TV mixing where there is a large solid video display, as opposed to a perforated projection screen, then I believe the benefit of high mounted speakers above the screen is superior to below.

[Rod Gervais]

Originally Posted by aquinox

Hi, I was thinking whether speakers placed higher and angled so the tweeter would be still aiming at ear level would give advantages, and came up with these:

Am I right? Does it have any other advantages? disadvantages?

aquinox,

No, you are not (necessarily) right.... on a number of accounts.....

1: The speaker will have less interaction with desk with gear which is slightly in the path of the speaker

Generally speaking, raising the speaker and tilting it will increase reflections from the desk...... This (of course) totally dependent on the starting point for the speaker.

Picture it this way.... if you started with a speaker directly over your head there would be no reflection to you from the surface of the desk........ if you were to swing the speaker (maintaining the same distance from (and always pointed to) the ear, there will reach an initial point where there is a small reflection off the front of the desk that hits the ear...... there will also reach a point where the majority of the signal from the speaker hits the desk and is reflected to the listener..... once you clear that point the level of reflections will begin to decrease - until the point where the speaker is low enough that there are no direct reflections from the speaker to the listener....

2: The distance from speakers to wall will be bigger, resulting in lower room modes and lower standing waves.

Room modes are created due to dimensions between room surfaces - they are not dependent on the location of sound source... This is as mentioned by the good Doctor.....

There is also the issue Ethan noted......

As far as the comment from ggegan, I do a lot of design for TV/Movie mixing rooms, with a huge hard screen, setting the speakers alongside or slightly in front of the monitor is preferred - when using a soft screen behind for the front L/R and center speakers is preferred. I usually try to set huge monitors tight to the wall the listener is facing - this generally allows the center speaker to be ear height sitting below the monitor......

Rod

[avare]

Originally Posted by Rod Gervais

aquinox,

No, you are not (necessarily) right.... on a number of accounts.....


Generally speaking, raising the speaker and tilting it will increase reflections from the desk...... This (of course) totally dependent on the starting point for the speaker.

Picture it this way.... if you started with a speaker directly over your head there would be no reflection to you from the surface of the desk........ if you were to swing the speaker (maintaining the same distance from (and always pointed to) the ear, there will reach an initial point where there is a small reflection off the front of the desk that hits the ear...... there will also reach a point where the majority of the signal from the speaker hits the desk and is reflected to the listener..... once you clear that point the level of reflections will begin to decrease - until the point where the speaker is low enough that there are no direct reflections from the speaker to the listener....



Room modes are created due to dimensions between room surfaces - they are not dependent on the location of sound source... This is as mentioned by the good Doctor.....

There is also the issue Ethan noted......

As far as the comment from ggegan, I do a lot of design for TV/Movie mixing rooms, with a huge hard screen, setting the speakers alongside or slightly in front of the monitor is preferred - when using a soft screen behind for the front L/R and center speakers is preferred. I usually try to set huge monitors tight to the wall the listener is facing - this generally allows the center speaker to be ear height sitting below the monitor......

+1.

In addition, the ear's response changes as the angle of the source changes in the vertical plane.

Vertically gifted (that is tall),
Andre

[Max Dread]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

So it's best to have the tweeters at ear level, and avoid desk reflections other ways.[/b]

And one of the common ways discussed on this forum is to

- minimise the desk. Make it as small as you can get away with.
- angle the desk (sloping toward you), so that reflections are guided away from you (ie - below your ears).
- if your TFTs must be in front of the speakers and close to you, try to get them as low as possible and then angle them up - so that you look down at them more, such as when looking at a laptop.

There were a couple of threads recently discussing this. Have you seen them? If not, let me know and I'll have a check through and post the links.

Cheers

Max

[Rod Gervais]

Originally Posted by avare

Vertically gifted (that is tall),
Andre

Vertically challenged (that is short)

But then again - you already knew that,

Rod