Which rockwool (rocksilk?) to use for vocal screen/panel construction? (UK)

[The Beatsmith]

Hi guys, i have plans to build some panels similar to the ones i have in pictures below. Sorry for not having credited the people whose panels these are, i took the pictures from the site a while ago.

It's main use is for vocal recording (a lot of rappers, quite a few female 'soulful' jazzy singers), but i'm sure will come in useful for acoustic guitar, drums etc. It will be 4-5 panels, and i'll place some thin 1.5-2inch panels across the top/ceiling. The more it surrounds the vocalist, the better.

They'll be around 7 foot high, or around 215cm, as one of the guys i work with regularly is 6'5" tall!

I also have an SE Reflexion filter. Not sure how using that would factor in?? (Any advice here?) I would assume the best way to work is having the vocalist facing the panels...

Can you guys recommend which rockwool/rocksilk i should use for these panels - which density and brand, in the UK? Any links? Lastly, do you have any idea on and how thick they should be? I'm thinking 4inch thick, with no 'backs', like a standard 4" bass trap.

I have built a load of 1.5-2" panels with the high density Wickes stuff, and it's great to work with but i keep reading that it's too dense. So i assume i shouldn't use that again... the lower density stuff seems too fluffy/shapeless. Looking for a better/cheaper solution than Wickes.

Thanks!

[Zombies_on_Fire]

Have you measured the difference made by your diy panels with a measurement mic? If it really isn't doing the job, you can use Rockwool, which is a UK thing, which bobgold has absorbancy coefficients for.

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

obtaining it on the other hand, I used a trade company called Sheffield insulations (I'm from sheffield) which deal in... well I needn't repeat myself, but they have stores up and down the country, which sell rockwool in different thicknesses. I bought 50mm RW5 for my first reflection absorbers and my room sounds a lot tighter. If you don't live near a dealer, get on the rockwool website and find out your nearest dealer, its not expensive stuff, for £30 is got 4 sheets of 50mm 150x50 (or something close to that, I don't remember exactly).

Contacts - Sheffield Insulations (sheffield insulations)
www.rockwool.co.uk

To get it 215cm high, I would recommend buying a pack of what I got, building a wooden frame for it and stacking it on its sides, which would give you the right sort of shape. Good luck, its always good to hear there are slutz in the UK.

[Glenn Kuras]

I don't see a picture. If you making something like our screen panel then use something that is 4 pounds or denser. If you make them 2" or thicker you can fold them up and put in corners to use as bass trapping when not using them. thumbsup

[The Beatsmith]

Thanks glenn, and zombies! The pics are there now. It'd be a bit like your screen panels but it needs to be a little taller, and doesn't necessarily have to go all the way to the bottom (could have feet). Probably easier if it doesn't have feet though, and is just some really tall panels hinged together.

I would probably want them to be at least 2", probably more like 3 or 4. Depends on the thickness and density of the slabs - the Wickes stuff for example is 1.5inch or so, so doubling up that would give 3. Obviously . But i think most places have 2" slabs... so 4" would be fine.

With regards to the rockwool, thanks to both. The sheffield stuff doesn't appear to be much cheaper than Wickes, at that price? I'll research a little more and report back!

[The Beatsmith]

And so, is RW5 the one to go for for this kind of application? The main job/priority is to make great sounding vocal screens/booth, but any sound 'blocking' properties of denser stuff is welcome too. The vocalist is going to be pretty surrounded so i think it should do a fair job at just containing all that vocal noise.

[Glenn Kuras]

Honestly I would shop on price for what you are doing.

[The Beatsmith]

OK cool. I will probably go with two slabs of RW5 (100mm/2inch thick) which is 4 inch thick in total. And probably 4 screens in total, but they'll make two 'hinged units'. I've been checking out the bobgolds page and hopefully i should be OK with this.

I do want cheap, but i also want easy! The Sheffield place is very close to me. But i noticed that they do rocksilk also.

Please anyone, butt in and tell me i'm wrong if you think otherwise

[DanDan]

RS100 is nice to work with and performs well.
DD

[Skasei]

@Beatmsith, did you decide which rocksilk/rockwool to use and where to get it from in the UK? I'm looking to build a vocal booth (mainly for rappers too) much like the tall one with the mic in your original post.

[Richie]

I built a set of room panels for Irving Place Studios to tune vocal performance, used largely for voice over work and we used a much smaller package and as we were not concerned with creating isolation for a vocalist, we did not need to go floor to whatever height. What we used was a single sheet of 1/2" (13 mm) MDF and covered it with polyester fiberfill sheets, (both side the same) I think it was 6 lbs. density, it was purchased at a fabric / sewing store and was normally used for quilting and jackets, it was the thin yet dense variety. We cover this with a high quality Gulliford fabric. The sound for vocals inside of the 30" panels was wonderful, deep, articulate and present. The sheet size we ended up using was about 30" wide by 6' 4" tall or there about. It was framed with 5/4" Cherry surrounds in the Art and Crafts style, I wish I had a picture.
I think that part of the success of the sound was the diaphragmatic properties of the 1/2" panel. The panel floated inside the frame but was not tightly attached to it. Give it a try, if I ever build another vocal screen, I won't even think about it, I'll start here.

[The Beatsmith]

Originally Posted by Skasei

@Beatmsith, did you decide which rocksilk/rockwool to use and where to get it from in the UK? I'm looking to build a vocal booth (mainly for rappers too) much like the tall one with the mic in your original post.

hey there, i got it from Celotex, Kingspan, TLX, Actis, Knauf, Rocksilk, Rockwool, Gyproc, and much more at Just Insulation, UK - i got 5 bags (3 100mm slabs per bag) of RS100. unfortunately you have to spend over £100 for a minimum order.

i actually need another 3 bags, but it doesn't come to over £100 so i can't order...

cheers

[Skasei]

Originally Posted by The Beatsmith

hey there, i got it from Celotex, Kingspan, TLX, Actis, Knauf, Rocksilk, Rockwool, Gyproc, and much more at Just Insulation, UK - i got 5 bags (3 100mm slabs per bag) of RS100. unfortunately you have to spend over £100 for a minimum order.

i actually need another 3 bags, but it doesn't come to over £100 so i can't order...

cheers

Thanks for the reply. Just out of interest why did you go for the Rocksilk as opposed to the Rockwool because I see you were leaning towards the Rockwool at the beginning.

[scottwilder]

Originally Posted by Zombies_on_Fire

... you can use Rockwool, which is a UK thing...

In the USA, a competitive place to get Rockwool is http://www.atsacoustics.com

[Dange]

Originally Posted by Richie

I think that part of the success of the sound was the diaphragmatic properties of the 1/2" panel. The panel floated inside the frame but was not tightly attached to it.

I think it's more likely that the dense panel reflected the lower frequencies while the thin layer of absorber shaved off a bit of the highs.

For it to move in a diaphragmatic way is unlikely, think of how the mass of the MDF compares to the mass of the diaphragm in a microphone capsule for example.

But it gave good results so who really cares! thumbsup

[The Beatsmith]

Originally Posted by Skasei

Thanks for the reply. Just out of interest why did you go for the Rocksilk as opposed to the Rockwool because I see you were leaning towards the Rockwool at the beginning.

Hey man

Well, DanDan recommended it, i looked at the absorption co-efficients and they were good too. Also i found somewhere that did it, decent enough price, in a size that meant no stacking etc, so just did it.

Bear in mind that the minimum order is £100 and shipping is £45!!

I actually needed another 3 packs to create a 'faux wall' in front of some big double doors. I couldn't order from these guys as the minimum order is £100 and shipping is so much etc...

After searching online for places that sell and delivery rocksilk or rockwool (most of which allowed me to order then would tell me they had none in stock or at the 'warehouse') and getting cancelled, i found a place that did some RW5 panels for really cheap. Their delivery was £25. Overall for 4 bags of RW5 (each bag has 6 slabs of 50mm RW5), i paid £95 delivered. The other places said that the stuff is so 'specialist' that you have to order a crate load of it.

I also thought that i'd like to build some 5cm panels, mainly for a small cloud above mix position.

So i decided to buy 4 bags of RW5, 50mm from 'Insulation Direct 2 U' (Insulation Direct 2 U - Insulation, Cladding, Fire Protection & More) - i've had it confirmed, so i hope they don't back out too. I can use 3 packs for the 'wall' thing, and then i have another pack (6 x 50mm slabs) for some more thinner panels.

A bag of the 50mm stuff is exactly the same as the 100mm, you just get each 100mm panel cut in half. So you can stack them together if you want, it's more flexible overall.

I'll let you know if these guys call me and back out like the other guys did...

[Skasei]

@Beatsmith - Thanks for the reply, the link to the site and all the really useful info. Very much appreciated!

[Skasei]

Just as a follow up to this I called my local Encon this afternoon about RW3 which they didn't have but they do have RS100 100mm thick, packs of 3 for £14.04 plus vat. RS60 is £14.40 plus vat. It's an hour away from here but worth it because I can just get the amount I want.

You think the 100mm RS100 is the one to get the for vocal booth panels instead of the 50mm?

[paw]

I use RS60 100mm for my vocal panels. I got it from www.insulationshop.co
They delivered next day which was pretty impresive. I had to pay 10 pund delivery which is not too bad.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by paw

I use RS60 100mm for my vocal panels. I got it from www.insulationshop.co
They delivered next day which was pretty impresive. I had to pay 10 pund delivery which is not too bad.

Your first post with a link and from almost a year ago?

We need one of those "fishy" smiles.

[coyotekells]

Beatsmith, though things may have changed since 2010, could you summarize the places you dealt with and what you ordered from each, more specifically, which courier they delivered by etc?

I am needing to order 6 or more bundles this week, to be shipped to Ghana from the UK. And to make it more complicated, I'm in Canada. So this is all going to be difficult to juggle I think (and certainly expensive)

Your input is very appreciated, thanks