Owens 703 vs. ATS "equivelant"

[chris carter]

I did a search, but had a hard time finding anyone with direct experience with both.

ATS says, "This rigid fiberglass material is an exact substitute for Owens Corning 703. Sound absorption, density, appearance, and physical properties are virtually identical. The only differences are: 1) this material is slightly lighter in color than 703, and 2) it is somewhat softer, that is it compresses somewhat more easily than 703."

Anybody have any experience comparing directly with OC703? It's about $15 a box cheaper for 2". I don't carea bout splitting hairs. But if it's all floppy-doppy or falls apart or harder to work with, I'd like to know.

[SAC]

I apologize that I do not have the specific information you desire, but...

I would give ATS a call and inquire directly as to the manufacturer and the specs of the material supplied.

There are any number of semi-rigid fiberglass products that are very close to the OC product and I would think that any reputable dealer would have no problem with disclosing this - especially as their difference in cost may simply be due to their economies of scale in purchasing said product.

[Glenn Kuras]

We now sell 703 and asked my rep about this. According to him he claims it is 701 not 703 which will work if the panel is thick enough.

[chris carter]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

We now sell 703 and asked my rep about this. According to him he claims it is 701 not 703 which will work if the panel is thick enough.

Interesting.... 701 is 1.5pcf while 703 is 3pcf. The ATS stuff is SUPPOSEDLY (according to their website) 3pcf. I will call them to doublecheck.

[chris carter]

Specs. The ATS doesn't specify the depth, but it links to the 2inch product:

Product Name Density
lbs/ft3 125 Hz. 500 Hz. 1000 Hz. 4000 Hz. NRC Rigidity Price/sq.ft.

ATS Acoustics Rigid Fiberglass Board 3 lb. 0.29 1.11 1.131.03 1.00 Rigid $1.23 Plus: An exact substitute for 703 at a better price. Minus: A little more expensive than AFB and Rockboard 60 for the same sound absorption.

Owens-Corning 703 2" 3 lb. 0.17 1.14 1.07 0.98 1.00 Rigid $1.54 Plus: Well known product. Good for small projects where cost is not a big concern. Minus: More expensive than AFB and Rockboard 60 for the same sound absorption.

The front wall of my new studio will be a "V" shape with a depth of 16" on the sides going down to 4" in the middle; apx 11ft wide and 8ft tall. It will be 4" deep 703 (or ATS) via two 2" panels glued together on the edges and the middle 7ft + will be 2" deep. Behind the 703 will be fluffy fiberglass for the cavity. The ATS stuff seems to spec out pretty close, but obviously the specs for this stuff doesn't really tell the whole story as none of it was ever designed for acoustics. With all the other stuff I need to do to the space, I've got to pinch some pennies here and there, and this will save me a few bucks.

FWIW - There will be other bass trapping in the studio. Essentially a the wall/ceiling corners around the rest of the room. These will be 6" 703 straddling the corners with air behind (recycling what will be my old free-standing 6" deep bass traps for this purpose, which were OC703). The rest of the room will have varying absorption and diffusion.

So I'm just looking for someone with firsthand experience with both.

UPDATE:
Just talked with someone at ATS. They can't tell me who the manufacturer is (no suprise there), but she said she could see if they have a spec sheet from the manufacturer with more info she can fax me with the name blanked out.

She said she's used both and she said the rigidity is pretty close and you can wrap them in fabric like you can with 703. she said that if you lean up against the ATS it will hold the compression shape longer than 703 before it comes back. She confirmed that the specs on the site are for the 2" depth and that it is in fact 3lb density like 703.

[Glenn Kuras]

That really sounds like 701 to me. Rigid fiberglass becomes more rigid the denser it becomes. So if it is not as rigid then it must weigh less.

[avare]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

That really sounds like 701 to me. Rigid fiberglass becomes more rigid the denser it becomes. So if it is not as rigid then it must weigh less.

AARGH! This is not directed at you Glenn, you just happen to be the lucky one who brought this up.

There are variations on insulation based on the binder and how much is used also.

Andre

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by avare

AARGH! This is not directed at you Glenn, you just happen to be the lucky one who brought this up.

There are variations on insulation based on the binder and how much is used also.

Andre

That is a good point.

[leepofaith]

A friend of mine purchased some of the ATS equivalent for his church the box said it was from a company named KNAUF insulation. If you call ATS they will tell exactly what you are getting so that you can determine if it is right for you. The panels came out great. I used 703 in my studio and could not discern a difference in materials.

[chris carter]

Originally Posted by leepofaith

A friend of mine purchased some of the ATS equivalent for his church the box said it was from a company named KNAUF insulation. If you call ATS they will tell exactly what you are getting so that you can determine if it is right for you. The panels came out great. I used 703 in my studio and could not discern a difference in materials.

THANKS! That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I checked the Knauf site and found the exact product by comparing the frequency response. It is in fact 3lb/ft^3.

Now the only thing I have to decide is whether or not I want to go with that or with Roxul Rockboard 60.

[avare]

Originally Posted by chris carter

Now the only thing I have to decide is whether or not I want to go with that or with Roxul Rockboard 60.

For what you are describing, ~4" and thicker, use the 3 lb/ft3 fiberglass.

Andre

[chris carter]

Originally Posted by avare

For what you are describing, ~4" and thicker, use the 3 lb/ft3 fiberglass.

Andre

That's what I was thinking, that it might be more effective using the 3lb fiberglass with fluffy behind as opposed to the rockboard. It will certainly be easier to work with as well, as I understand.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by chris carter

THANKS! That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. I checked the Knauf site and found the exact product by comparing the frequency response. It is in fact 3lb/ft^3.

Now the only thing I have to decide is whether or not I want to go with that or with Roxul Rockboard 60.

Well I stand corrected. Please excuse me while I go give my rep a ear full.

[gremmy]

I've got nothing but good things to say about ATS. I have a combination of ATS panels and DIY panels in my home theater, and they have worked out very well (bass response is pretty flat now, except for one slight 5db dip which testing has confirmed is caused by SBIR).

In fact, I just ordered a bunch of mineral wool from them to create a ceiling cloud.

[Insulation Man]

I checked the ATS website, and it just seems strange why they wouldnt mention the manufacturer's name. There are only a couple of manufacturers such as Knauf, Manson, Johns Manville. All of those names are reputable and you would be able to mention them online. It might be product from Columbia, which I have encountered in the NYC market. This stuff is usually dustier than 703, but is pretty much the same stuff. Might also be stuff from China. Either way, the acoustical performance is probably very similar if it is infact the same thickness and density.