D. I. Y. Polys

[johndykstra]

So here they are. I hope the mounting is depicted intuitively enough. After a few days time with them up, the imperfections are bothering me less. We'll see in time what the verdict is.

[amishsixstringe]

Those look awesome, John. Have you noticed much with the sound by ear yet? I'm assuming you plan to update your 'binder' at each step? I am excited to see it.

Neil

[johndykstra]

Hey Neil, thanks.

They are not all up yet. Observations to this point: after installing 5 around the drum corner, in a practical sense the snare has a lot more snap... attack. The cymbals for sure are brighter. Whether or not it's gone too far I'm yet to decide. It may be a bit harsh but the difference is so jarring at this point; I need some time with it and ideally a track and mix is coming within a month or so.

Experiencing them with less than drum SPLs, standing and talking in this corner is far less oppressive feeling.


There are still 5 more of these that can be installed in the rest of the room. I'm holding off to decide whether or not they offend me visually. I may end up painting them a satin grey to give less contrast on the holes. I may end up covering them with a very thin fabric. Either way, my room is so cluttered with control room gear and multiple drum sets, that finishing and measuring at this point would be so skewed due to gear that it will have to wait.

[Mctwins]

JohnD.....

It wasen't my intention at all to get you upset with my comments. I feel sorry if I have. I have the upmost respect for your craftmanship and I have never critisized you for that. I know how hard it is to build something acoustically, a hell of a jobb.

I only gave comments of the measurements.


Thanks

[johndykstra]

water under the bridge McTwins. I'm not as bothered as perhaps my reply suggests.

[johndykstra]

First session with the bad panels.

Also happens to be my first session with my 7th Circle pres, and I also borrowed some new mics. So..........

Far and away my best drum tracking session.

Is it the panels? Is it the pres? Is it the mics? Is it more experience?

I think there's a natural progression with all engineers that makes specific improvements impossible to nail down as the reason of greater success.

Most dramatic improvements:

Snare drum. Far and away. Crazy nice transient with the the condenser. SM57 pushing the limits of the API-esque 7thO sounds exactly like I want a snare to sound. There's a considerable difference with the room's sonic outside of the recording chain, so I'm confident in saying the BAD panels are a huge factor here.

Overheads. Cymbals sound less choked.


Track count:

1. Kick- Beta 52>N72
2. Kick- Homemade subkick>Ghost
3. Snare top- SM57>A12
4 Snare top- SM81>Ghost
5. Snare bottom- SM57>Ghost
6. Rack- MD421>Ghost
7. Flr1 top- MD421>Ghost
8. Flr1 BTM- ATM450>MPA Gold
9. Flr2 top - MD421>Ghost
10. Flr2 BTM- ATM450>MPA Gold
11. Overhead Rack - C42>C84
12. Overhead Floor - C42>C84
13. HiHat - AT4081>Ghost
14. Ride spot mic - KSM141>Ghost
15. Drummer's ear -AT4060>N72

After I get the tracks leveled out, I'll post a clip of the premix drums.

[DR Music]

Originally Posted by johndykstra

Here's what I'm thinking, next time I find some free time:

Attachment 227759

I want to face all of my broadband panels with a binary amplitude grating. Plenty of 1/8" ply left. I figure I can stack them all and drill at once. Deciding if I want to modify a plunge router to hold my drill, or if I should go the drill press route. That would mean buying/renting. Also not sure if a drill press would have the clearance to get into the middle part of the panels. Either way, I think I will have to incorporate a sled/jig to ensure straight lines.

As rendered, the panels are same top and bottom. Even drawing 1/4 of a panel and copy/flipping was tedious. When carried out, I would use the negative for the bottom half, and then I can simply turn ever other trap upside down to avoid repetition.

My reasoning, is that I would like yet a bit more 'life' restored to the room. The polys are great, but the room's decay still feels dry to me.

Awesome idea

[DR Music]

Originally Posted by avare

The panels and their being reversible is great. Bear in mind that as you add diffusion, the room will become drier.

Andre

AMEN!

[npulsipher]

Ha ha! Stumbled across this thread looking for treatment ideas for my music room. Let out a loud "GUFFAW!" when I read this.

Originally Posted by johndykstra

Cons:
not in a metal band

Looks like a nice space! Any chance of you sharing a clip of that drum session? (Love the subkick made from a bongo, by the way)

[2manyrocks]

Originally Posted by johndykstra

Again. I would never NEVER attempt this again. You can purchase binary amplitude grating masks. Do that. It would be totally worth your time.

Where can you purchase these masks? And the masks themselves are just some thin material of some sort--not necessarily wood or metal?

Honestly, could you program something like a cricut machine to cut these masks?

The idea of drilling 1,000 holes with a drill........yikes.

[smaggers]

OT, but what is going on with the bass drum? It appears to be having some form of congress with a single bongo

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by npulsipher

Ha ha! Stumbled across this thread looking for treatment ideas for my music room. Let out a loud "GUFFAW!" when I read this.



Looks like a nice space! Any chance of you sharing a clip of that drum session? (Love the subkick made from a bongo, by the way)

GUFFAW! That's great. You have to admit though, things hanging from chains?.... metal owns that look. And Tori Amos. But let's be honest. She's as metal as you get before you actually play metal

Thankyou! We're nuts busy right now. Perhaps in the upcoming weeks I can get down there and bounce a version without the rest of the instruments. Unless you want to hear them too.

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by 2manyrocks

Where can you purchase these masks? And the masks themselves are just some thin material of some sort--not necessarily wood or metal?

Honestly, could you program something like a cricut machine to cut these masks?

The idea of drilling 1,000 holes with a drill........yikes.

Check this thread:

RPG Bad Panel -- Detailed Plans

RPG's masks aren't meant for exterior finish. They cover their mask with fabric, so I'd expect they are cardboard, or cheap wood. Not sure to be honest. Also not sure if Joe Public can buy them, of if you need an acoustician go between.

it was over 1,000 holes actually

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by smaggers

OT, but what is going on with the bass drum? It appears to be having some form of congress with a single bongo

Originally Posted by npulsipher

(Love the subkick made from a bongo, by the way)

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by johndykstra

it was over 1,000 holes actually

HOLY COW I always knew you where a bit nuts!

[2manyrocks]

I read this thread and a couple of others trying to figure out how the manufacturers make all these holes. I wouldn't think any manufacturer drills 1,000-1,500 holes by hand and could still make a living doing it.


Looking at p. 2 of the brochure linked below, it looks like the grating is some kind of thin membrane?

Not sure how you'd program a cricut or vinyl cutting machine to do it, but I sort of suspect you could program one of these machines to cut whatever pattern of holes you want in a sheet of heavy cardstock to use as a membrane over a layer of 703. Or it's back to the hand drill method....

http://www.silentsource.com/PDF/badpanel.pdf

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by 2manyrocks

I read this thread and a couple of others trying to figure out how the manufacturers make all these holes. I wouldn't think any manufacturer drills 1,000-1,500 holes by hand and could still make a living doing it.


Looking at p. 2 of the brochure linked below, it looks like the grating is some kind of thin membrane?

Not sure how you'd program a cricut or vinyl cutting machine to do it, but I sort of suspect you could program one of these machines to cut whatever pattern of holes you want in a sheet of heavy cardstock to use as a membrane over a layer of 703. Or it's back to the hand drill method....

http://www.silentsource.com/PDF/badpanel.pdf

Oh for sure. Some sort of CAD cutting machine. The can be fit out to cut vinyl, paper, wood, sheet metal... you name it. All you need is access to one, and for someone to layout the template in whatever program is used to run their "printer".

That said, if someone were to have a drill press with a large enough feed bed to get to the center of a 2' panel, this could be done much easier than I did, and with far greater precision as you get lower in the stack. I wouldn't recommend painting before hand. The clamping pressure cause alot of tearout because they stuck together. I would also use a smaller diameter bit to get a bit more webbing.

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

HOLY COW I always knew you where a bit nuts!

I still don't know how many holes it takes to fill the Albert Hall, but I suspect I came close

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by johndykstra

GUFFAW! That's great. You have to admit though, things hanging from chains?.... metal owns that look. And Tori Amos. But let's be honest. She's as metal as you get before you actually play metal

Thankyou! We're nuts busy right now. Perhaps in the upcoming weeks I can get down there and bounce a version without the rest of the instruments. Unless you want to hear them too.

{EDIT} shopping link added by "skimword"?!?!?!? WTF is this!{EDIT}

And now it's gone. That's bizzare.

[2manyrocks]

I have an industrial drill press, but I would not want to drill that many holes. I'd take a few sheets of plywood out to the gun range and ask them to make the holes for me before I drilled that many holes.

[npulsipher]

Originally Posted by johndykstra

Thankyou! We're nuts busy right now. Perhaps in the upcoming weeks I can get down there and bounce a version without the rest of the instruments. Unless you want to hear them too.

Hearing the whole band would be great! I definitely don't want to add more nuts to your busy pile.

[johndykstra]

Here's a song from before the binary panels. This was run straight through the Soundcraft, no outboards. For all intents and purposes, this song is mixed and "done"

[johndykstra]

Here's a song from the latest batch after the binary panels were up. Also, the mic pre list above would apply, as would the photos from the session. This track is still in overdub stage, so little if no mixing has been applied. Sorry, not a "fair" comparison, but to be honest I didn't have comparisons in mind.

[John White]

Thanks for sharing John. Yes, probably not a fair comparison on a multitude of levels, though on the first take the drums are clearly more "boxy" than the second track after the panels.
Totally sick btw. Love the vocals.

[npulsipher]

Originally Posted by johndykstra

Here's a song from before the binary panels. This was run straight through the Soundcraft, no outboards. For all intents and purposes, this song is mixed and "done".

Here's a song from the latest batch after the binary panels were up. Also, the mic pre list above would apply, as would the photos from the session. This track is still in overdub stage, so little if no mixing has been applied. Sorry, not a "fair" comparison, but to be honest I didn't have comparisons in mind.

Dude! These are both awesome! I'd buy that album in a heartbeat. (Do you have a past album that I can buy? I want to hear more)

Originally Posted by John White

Totally sick btw. Love the vocals.

+1

Ok, now what was this thread about? Oh yeah, the panels. The biggest difference is definitely the snare and symbols. A lot more pop and clarity. IMO, it was worth all your effort.

[johndykstra]

hey thanks guys. We're super stoked on this batch.

I've condemned our previous project. This is the first batch from the new band. I'd love to have you check this out when it's done, but I don't want anyone subjected to the last band. But again, thank you!

This is us here if you want to stay informed of things:

https://www.facebook.com/mdrattle



Yes I believe the panels have made a world of difference.

[muziekschuur]

Why is "pumpin the........" not on the radio? I mean it's a great great song....


What's up with the world....

[smaggers]

I'm thinking about trying ponoko instead of drilling all those holes by hand.
Has anyone else used them?

[johndykstra]

Thanks more guys for the kind words about the songs. They're right here:

Midwest Death Rattle

free if you like, pay if you like more

[myles]

johndyskstra, this is a great thread! I've poked around in some other threads but can't find this - how tall are the ceilings in your room? I'm in the middle of building a small room with looooooow ceilings and am looking for some cheering up.