Console reflection solution?
Old 1st February 2010
  #1
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Console reflection solution?

Here is my rube goldberg way of reducing console reflections. (yes that's a pencil propping up the foam) I put the damping beneath the tweeters instead of at the console reflection points. It passes the mirror test. There must be a more elegant way to do this.

Thoughts?

-R
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Console reflection solution?-tweeter-reflection.jpg  
Old 1st February 2010
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Here is my rube goldberg way of reducing console reflections. (yes that's a pencil propping up the foam) I put the damping beneath the tweeters instead of at the console reflection points. It passes the mirror test. There must be a more elegant way to do this.
Use a nicer pencil?

Frank
Old 1st February 2010
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Did you study privately?

-R
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Old 1st February 2010
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Hahaha...I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.

I don't know of a commercial product that does the job better, really. Mostly what I see are guys doing just what you're doing...cobbling something together out of desperation because the comb filtering off their desks is killing them. I've seen towels, rock wool, foam, duvets...you name it.

Frank
Old 2nd February 2010
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Yeah I've always tried to drape stuff over the console at critical times. It just occurred to me that putting something under the tweeter at the speaker itself was way more efficient. Maybe Primacoustic should design their recoil stabilizers with a little apron on the front that could hold some foam.

-R
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Old 2nd February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Here is my rube goldberg way of reducing console reflections. (yes that's a pencil propping up the foam) I put the damping beneath the tweeters instead of at the console reflection points. It passes the mirror test. There must be a more elegant way to do this.

Thoughts?

-R
Okay.. Never thought I'd say this..: More foam!

A 2kHz wave is nearly 7", 3kHz is 4.5". Hard to tell the size in the pic, but you should make sure it's at least that size and then you want it to hit exactly in the middle of the reflection path. Doubling or tripling the foam depth will also help a lot.
Old 2nd February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupo View Post
Okay.. Never thought I'd say this..: More foam!

A 2kHz wave is nearly 7", 3kHz is 4.5". Hard to tell the size in the pic, but you should make sure it's at least that size and then you want it to hit exactly in the middle of the reflection path. Doubling or tripling the foam depth will also help a lot.
Point taken. I'd probably do better with 2 or 3" of fabric wrapped 705 or something. You do realize I'm not hitting the reflection at all, but the direct sound before it gets to the console. Maybe it should be 705 with the backing on the bottom side.

I could probably have some long finish nails protruding horizontally from the wood rim at the top of the desk and then just impale the 705 there so it forms a little freestanding shelf.

-R
Old 2nd February 2010
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Originally Posted by Weasel9992 View Post
Hahaha...I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.
It was a funny comment, and my response was meant to be as well

-R
Old 2nd February 2010
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Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Point taken. I'd probably do better with 2 or 3" of fabric wrapped 705 or something. You do realize I'm not hitting the reflection at all, but the direct sound before it gets to the console. Maybe it should be 705 with the backing on the bottom side.
It doesn't matter where the trap is, as long as the trap is somewhere in the reflection path it'll damp the sound. Given that velocity is nill and pressure max exactly at the reflection point, you'll get better performance as is now by having the absorber at some distance from the surface. Foam is a bit iffy but it should work fine for the purpose if you can make it 4-6". Measurements would help confirm if it's good enough as is, or if you need better absorbers like glass fiber. Or you can play some swooshing sound and listen for comb filtering. Add and remove the absorber and get used to difference in sound. Without absorber, there'll be a flanger and it'll move up and down in frequency as you move your head closer or farther away. With absorber in place, the flanger should ideally be totally inaudible. Measurements are better but it's possible to use the ear for a coarse indication.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
I could probably have some long finish nails protruding horizontally from the wood rim at the top of the desk and then just impale the 705 there so it forms a little freestanding shelf.
Seems like a fine idea!
Old 2nd February 2010
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why not sandwich a thin stick or two (like paint stir sticks) between your bridge and monitor and have that hold the absorption in place?
Old 2nd February 2010
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Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai View Post
why not sandwich a thin stick or two (like paint stir sticks) between your bridge and monitor and have that hold the absorption in place?
I thought about that, but having the monitor rest on something like that would probably change its sound for the worse. Now it is held firmly against the console top, weighed down by an LSR28 on top of it, so any front to back motion is held to a minimum.

-R
Old 2nd February 2010
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Originally Posted by Lupo View Post
IFoam is a bit iffy but it should work fine for the purpose if you can make it 4-6". Measurements would help confirm if it's good enough as is, or if you need better absorbers like glass fiber. Or you can play some swooshing sound and listen for comb filtering. Add and remove the absorber and get used to difference in sound. Without absorber, there'll be a flanger and it'll move up and down in frequency as you move your head closer or farther away. With absorber in place, the flanger should ideally be totally inaudible. Measurements are better but it's possible to use the ear for a coarse indication.
)
I'll try the flanger test today. Glass fiber is certainly the way to go. I just grabbed the foam because it was lying around.

-R
Old 2nd February 2010
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Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
I'll try the flanger test today. Glass fiber is certainly the way to go. I just grabbed the foam because it was lying around.
I don't think you want glass fibers raining down on your equipment.

Paul P
Old 2nd February 2010
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Originally Posted by PaulP View Post
I don't think you want glass fibers raining down on your equipment.

Paul P
Fabric wrapped of course.

-R
Old 2nd February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupo View Post
Add and remove the absorber and get used to difference in sound. Without absorber, there'll be a flanger and it'll move up and down in frequency as you move your head closer or farther away. With absorber in place, the flanger should ideally be totally inaudible. Measurements are better but it's possible to use the ear for a coarse indication.
Hey, the flanger test worked great. Without the foam, lots of high frequency comb filtering/flanging as I moved my head. When I put the foam back up, the overall flanging effect diminished by about 70%, and resided mostly in lower frequencies. The ultra high end was completely cool.

So this tells me that the concept is good, but to go with a denser absorber, like 2" 703 or 705 and make it a little larger.

What's astounding is how extreme the comb filtering is without any treatment.
Thanks again for this most excellent suggestion, which I should have tried years ago.

Now I have to go test some different pencils.

-R
Old 2nd February 2010
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Console reflection solution?-ifoam.png
Ouch. Turns out IFoam is a strongly guarded top secret big income generating future trademark. They are not happy about this name leakage. They came so fast that it's no doubt they're serious. It was all a bit confusing. As far I could gather, they're planning to mass market acoustic foam. Especially as a way to tame first order reflections from some sort of overgrown cell phone like device. Dunno why they revealed that in the first place. Wonder even more why they revealed the even bigger secret than the primary application. Perhaps because I laughed so hard? Laughing stopped immediately when they revealed the really big news. Was stupified. Froze up and just stood there staring at them with utter incomprehension. Totally awestruck. Took a long minute for the brain to adjust to this mindbendingly great idea. It was overpowering. So simple, yet so geniusly grandiosely splendidly excellently famously cool! Only a man of Jöbs caliber could come up with something like that. White. White foam! The little touch that changes everything. Along with the most catchy foam name in history. The two secrets to more sales!

Seemed most mad at me for writing it here using a hidden letter. Not happy at all. They mentioned that you're up for something as well for revealing it through ultraquoting. It isn't going to be as harsh though. Something easy like debt for life. Hopefully. The term "iffy" softened up my kneecaps and I'm typing this in the 5 minute break from the 23.55 hour shifts in the mines.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Hey, the flanger test worked great. Without the foam, lots of high frequency comb filtering/flanging as I moved my head. When I put the foam back up, the overall flanging effect diminished by about 70%, and resided mostly in lower frequencies. The ultra high end was completely cool.
Excellent!


Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
What's astounding is how extreme the comb filtering is without any treatment.
Thanks again for this most excellent suggestion, which I should have tried years ago.
Scary, huh?

Listening for reflections is a fun habit that can be exercised just about anywhere anytime. Especially easy in man made surroundings with hard flat surfaces just about everywhere. Helps keeping the ears up to scratch! Gives some useful listening skills too. Blind people can hear stupendously much compared to the average viewer. Luckily, we don't have to be blind to use the ears.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Now I have to go test some different pencils.
Post some slutty pics! We want to see your gear!


Had a beer or two.. Cheers! :D

Andreas
Old 2nd February 2010
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Is that at Lingo/SCS? It's funny because when I did a lot of work there I used to do something very similar, and it's the same setup as I see in your pic- Control 24 with the patchbay & some OB on the left, probably mounted in the exact same desk.
Old 2nd February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupo View Post
Post some slutty pics! We want to see your gear!


Had a beer or two.. Cheers! :D

Andreas
Okay, here is my slutty pencil collection and an example of my test methodology.

As for the beer, well this one will be ready in about 6 weeks. Should go nicely with lutefisk.

Cheers,
-R
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Console reflection solution?-pencill-samples.jpg   Console reflection solution?-pencil-test-2.jpg   Console reflection solution?-homebrew-2.jpg  
Old 2nd February 2010
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Lutfisk !?

Wow.

WT
Old 2nd February 2010
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Originally Posted by Berolzheimer View Post
Is that at Lingo/SCS?
Nope, it's my personal use space in Venice. I haven't even implemented that patch bay yet.

-R
Old 3rd February 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Okay, here is my slutty pencil collection and an example of my test methodology.

As for the beer, well this one will be ready in about 6 weeks. Should go nicely with lutefisk.
That's frickin' hilarious. I grew up German Lutheran, so I'm quite familiar with lutefisk. I'd rather eat my own vomit, but I'm familiar with it. Lutefisk, not my vomit. Though, actually I'm familiar with that too. Okay, I'm done.

Frank
Old 3rd February 2010
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Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
Okay, here is my slutty pencil collection and an example of my test methodology.
Can see that you're into modding as well. The second from the left is much cooler than the one on the left. Seems there's pens for any occasion there, with the Soundcraft pen being an obvious source of envy!


Quote:
Originally Posted by RKrizman View Post
As for the beer, well this one will be ready in about 6 weeks. Should go nicely with lutefisk.
Neat! Add some 'shrooms for the authentic Viking experience.

How do you serve your lutefisk? In norway, it's with bacon and mashed peas, in Sweden it's with white sauce. Probably more ways to do it as well. Would be interesting to hear how you do it!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Weasel9992 View Post
I grew up German Lutheran, so I'm quite familiar with lutefisk.
Now you lost me. Lutefisk is, AFAIK, a Scandinavian thing. Martin Luther was German. What's that to do with lyefish?
Old 3rd February 2010
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Originally Posted by Lupo View Post
Now you lost me. Lutefisk is, AFAIK, a Scandinavian thing. Martin Luther was German. What's that to do with lyefish?
Right...I suppose it might. The congregation was primarily of Scandinavian descent, most of them from Minnesota. Lots and lots of Lutherans in that part of the country.

Frank
Old 3rd February 2010
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Originally Posted by Weasel9992 View Post
The congregation was primarily of Scandinavian descent, most of them from Minnesota. Lots and lots of Lutherans in that part of the country.
I C! About 1/3 of our country sailed west with lots of them ending up in the heartland area. Many religious refugees among them.

So lutefisk didn't fall in taste? Have you tried smalahove?
Old 3rd February 2010
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Originally Posted by Lupo View Post
I C! About 1/3 of our country sailed west with lots of them ending up in the heartland area. Many religious refugees among them.

So lutefisk didn't fall in taste? Have you tried smalahove?
Lupo, friend...is there simply *nothing* to eat in Norway?

Frank
Old 4th February 2010
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Don't read the line below if you're easily offended:

Beautiful girls.
Old 4th February 2010
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PRICELESS !!!!

best post of 2010 already...haha


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupo View Post
Don't read the line below if you're easily offended:

Beautiful girls.




testify brother!!!!!

.....when I got off the plane and went to oslo, we were really starving and had to go into the first McDonalds we found in the city......and right @ the desk was probably the most beautiful girl that EVER worked in a McD anywhere in the world !!!! not kidding
dropdeadgorgeous...... and the second most beautiful one stood right next to her at the other cash desk!!

this was followed by 2 weeks of total awe and about around 13-15 WTF???-moments of turning around your head in the streets, bars or cafe´s PER HOUR !!

norway...what´s your secret ??
Old 4th February 2010
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Originally Posted by tomdarude View Post
norway...what´s your secret ??
Please don't let it be lutefisk.

-R
Old 18th December 2012
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomdarude View Post
PRICELESS !!!!

best post of 2010 already...haha








testify brother!!!!!

.....when I got off the plane and went to oslo, we were really starving and had to go into the first McDonalds we found in the city......and right @ the desk was probably the most beautiful girl that EVER worked in a McD anywhere in the world !!!! not kidding
dropdeadgorgeous...... and the second most beautiful one stood right next to her at the other cash desk!!

this was followed by 2 weeks of total awe and about around 13-15 WTF???-moments of turning around your head in the streets, bars or cafe´s PER HOUR !!

norway...what´s your secret ??
We only hire beautiful peoples in norway. All the ugly ones are either out of work or a musician
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