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#61
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai View Post
But you HAVE wasted...a LOT of time... Repeatedly calling me an idiot. I never said this stuff was beneath me, and I never claimed to want anything from you...

In reference to my mommy's cleaning abilities: I purchased a house last year, and pulled permits to complete a total stud-up renovation of a 100 year old house, effectively increasing my property value by over 75k in less than one years time...(assessed value) while doing all of the work myself. And holding down a solid career. My studio work is, again, a hobby for me, and I allocate the amount of time towards it's improvements as I see fit.
geez... get out the tape measures and unzip, boys. We aren't even discussing audio anymore. Private message? It'll do just great and guys like the OP (and me) with questions about sound proofing/ studio acoustics can try to find the answers that generous folks are willing to provide.

-Matt
#62
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
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HAHA

I agree...

I made an attempt to move this willie waving to a different venue.
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#63
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai View Post
HAHA

I agree...

I made an attempt to move this willie waving to a different venue.
haha - "willie waving"... that's awesome

My take, for those who care, is that Ethan is an insanely helpful guy on this forum, and several others like him use this forum as a way to provide insights on how to upgrade the uber-important part of their studio that's usually last on newb's upgrade list: acoustics. He recommends, he consults, provides tests, and more... and also happens to build exactly what you probably need. But he does it regardless of your future purchases - I've never bought anything from him, but when/if I do buy acoustic panels it'll be from him or one of the other helpful acousticians on here. They know their stuff.

I'm a music teacher - music classes, private lessons, and yes audio recording services. I regard myself as something of an expert in my professional field (music), and a knowledgable amateur in audio matters. Somebody who spends decades working on acoustic problems has a worthy opinion, imho, just as I have some tried-and-true solutions to classroom management, choir ensembles, general music, percussion, music theory, etc. Why in the world do so many think that somebody offering advice is always crooked and scheming to get your business? He happens to build a high-quality solution, but the info and suggestions come regardless. When my mechanic tells me something casually that I should do for routine maintenance, I don't start a fight just because he CAN provide the service.

I'm afraid that this amazing resource - this acoustics forum - will stop being what it is if these guys are bashed everytime they offer their pro opinion.

/rant

-Matt
#64
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badhorsie777 View Post
I'm afraid that this amazing resource - this acoustics forum - will stop being what it is if these guys are bashed everytime they offer their pro opinion.

/rant

-Matt
careful, that's how this whole thing got started
SAC
#65
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #65
SAC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai View Post
It is a very blessed few who have the ability and patience to sift through the heavy worded text that accompanies "fundamental" acoustical physics. I like to think of myself as above average in the department of intelligence; I know, this is wide open for interpretation. I've attempted to understand the theory, and it's just not for me. Given years, and an end result that will yield me more than a great sounding room, I may be able to understand and apply these physics. Frankly, the end doesn't justify the means for me, and probably a whole host of other musicians out there that want to pursue this hobby. Let's face it, if you are in the acoustic forum, looking for advice on how to make your room sound better, this is a hobby for you. Anyone who would put their lively hood in the hands of faceless internet advice is not doing themselves any favors, and presumably, not sharp enough to grasp fundamental physics.
And now you claim that I have
Quote:
Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai View Post
repeatedly called (you) an idiot.
Nope, not once! But I will call you a liar. (look that big term up in Webster's...)

I have never called you an "idiot". Rather, your posts have pretty conclusively demonstrated that.

And as to a hobby home studio improving a house value by $75K LOL!!! You might realize that by virtue of adding additional floor space, but certainly NOT by virtue of adding a home studio! And I would suggest you check again in a period of largely depreciating home values! If you are under any other impression, I am curious as to whom your wizard of an accountant is. And it doesn't take an MBA to fathom this issue! Oh sorry, that involves studying too.

That is like saying building a swimming pool returns not only the actual construction costs but also appreciation for its presence!!!!

So, in order to realize that paper appreciation, when you sell it, this assumes that ALL prospective buyers will certainly demand a home studio! Yeah, right.... I think that particular featured add-on is second in demand of all home buyers only to having an automated mole extermination system paired with an automated exterior car dryer in a home!!! Thank goodness for Smart House technology!

In fact, if it is not desired by the prospective buyers, it is a liability, just as is a swimming pool!

Did you get your appraisal information off the web as well?

Well, this 'dozens' session has been fun, and a cute diversion from the real issues of the day. But I won't have the pleasure of revisiting this issue for a while as I have a few more substantial issues to attend - but then, who would really want to...so get in your last insults and absolutely false claims of my calling you an "idiot". But hey, you are pretty close in that the thought has been floating about!

And after you finish be sure to call your mom to come clean your fancy new house and the overvalued 'studio' addition, as if studying is beneath you, I suspect basic home hygiene may be as well.

Take care...and get a new accountant!
#66
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #66
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<taking my own advice and moving to PM's>
SAC
#67
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #67
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Well apparently we have yet another.

Nice to embody that which you claim to dislike, isn't it?
#68
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAC View Post

And as to a hobby home studio improving a house value by $75K LOL!!!
I can see where you jumped to this conclusion, but for the record, the studio of which I speak...it's in my signature lie f.y.i., and has been operational well before I bought my house.. resides in a band member's basement. The property value increase I referred to, assessed by my mortgage lender, pertains to the kitchen and bath remodel. Information provided to not only give some insight to my abilities to carry out a task, but also to be able to assess where my energies can be better spent...for my personal gain. Not to say the work that has been done in regards to acoustics isn't important. I would be willing to say invaluable for those who make a living from this.

I do appreciate your allusion of disregard for this game of twelves. If you truly do leave this where it stands...fine by me.
#69
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #69
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by badhorsie777 View Post
[Ethan] also happens to build exactly what you probably need. But he does it regardless of your future purchases
Thanks, and I do try my best. The real "agenda" comes from guys like Lemonsqueezer who hate what I have to say about other aspects of recording and gear. So they make a point of following me around everywhere just to throw stones at me. If you'd like to see what sort of trouble-making jerk Lemonsqueezer really is, click the link in his sig.

--Ethan
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#70
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #70
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I just re-read this thing...and I don't understand the fight.

In light of that, I apologize. Clearly, you know what you are talking about. I hope to see you here for years to come... after all, this entire time you've only been trumpeting knowledge.... that's really hard to argue with. If you truly can make it as simple as you claim, bravo. I had a really hard time with it.

My argument with you, was not regarding what you can provide, rather, you used my lack of knowledge on a concept that while in theory is possible, in the practice of the device for sale wasn't nearly acceptable. I feel it's in everybody's interest to call shinnanigans when we see it, and if I thought for one moment that Ethan was guilty, I'd say it.

Yes we agree that porous absorbers aren't the ideal solution, but can't we also agree that a 9" QRD is far less so? My knowledge of acoustics is admittedly limited, but what I do understand, I think I have a pretty firm grasp on.

Your assertion that I haven't put in the time is insulting, granted, it isn't nearly as much time as you've devoted, but that's not to say I don't have anything to contribute.

I have NEVER chimed in on a thread without already having some realization of expectations and budget. When a build thread is over my head, I subscribe and watch silently. When people discuss build options for absorbers, I lend my two cents because I have on hand knowledge of the process.

If you can honestly tell me, given budgetary considerations, that tuned solutions are just as easy and affordable as the generic... as well as adaptable in case their situation changes, I will gladly never offer advice again.

This is me asking very humbly, to put down the sword.
#71
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemonsqueezer View Post
Ethan, I am sure does have that ability, but for business reasons chooses not to give free advice in that area.

I am not saying I am going to either, I am just pointing out that bias exists on his part no matter how much he or yourself claim otherwise.
Hey man, I don't know you and don't care to get into it with you, but show me a preamp company that hangs on the forums and shows people how to build there product.
I just saying.
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SAC
#72
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #72
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Glen, I concur.

And not to disagree with your larger point... But, just because there is a rare exception, I thought I might post it... Nelson Pass does...and more! But he is definitely not typical - as he transcends many in so many ways!

Edit: And he also encourages and actively assists with many design variants as well. For those not familiar with Nelson Pass - engineer extraordinaire! - he is the principal behind such companies as Threshold and Pass Labs.
Pass DIY: Home of DIY Audio, Amplifiers, Preamps and Speakers/
#73
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAC View Post
Glen, I concur.

And not to disagree with your larger point... But, just because there is a rare exception, I thought I might post it... Nelson Pass does...and more! But he is definitely not typical - as he transcends many in so many ways!
I think that is great there is someone. thumbsup
#74
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #74
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badhorsie777 is offline
Quote:
Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai View Post
I just re-read this thing...and I don't understand the fight.

In light of that, I apologize. Clearly, you know what you are talking about. I hope to see you here for years to come... after all, this entire time you've only been trumpeting knowledge.... that's really hard to argue with. If you truly can make it as simple as you claim, bravo. I had a really hard time with it.

My argument with you, was not regarding what you can provide, rather, you used my lack of knowledge on a concept that while in theory is possible, in the practice of the device for sale wasn't nearly acceptable. I feel it's in everybody's interest to call shinnanigans when we see it, and if I thought for one moment that Ethan was guilty, I'd say it.

Yes we agree that porous absorbers aren't the ideal solution, but can't we also agree that a 9" QRD is far less so? My knowledge of acoustics is admittedly limited, but what I do understand, I think I have a pretty firm grasp on.

Your assertion that I haven't put in the time is insulting, granted, it isn't nearly as much time as you've devoted, but that's not to say I don't have anything to contribute.

I have NEVER chimed in on a thread without already having some realization of expectations and budget. When a build thread is over my head, I subscribe and watch silently. When people discuss build options for absorbers, I lend my two cents because I have on hand knowledge of the process.

If you can honestly tell me, given budgetary considerations, that tuned solutions are just as easy and affordable as the generic... as well as adaptable in case their situation changes, I will gladly never offer advice again.

This is me asking very humbly, to put down the sword.
Awww... now that's no fun. Stupid... respectful humility .... what's the interwebs coming to??!!

On a related note - can anyone point me to a paper that's below "I have a degree in acoustics" level language on ceiling clouds, tunable absorbers, and related junk being thrown around in this thread? I'd love to self-educate.

-Matt
#75
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badhorsie777 View Post
Awww... now that's no fun. Stupid... respectful humility .... what's the interwebs coming to??!!

On a related note - can anyone point me to a paper that's below "I have a degree in acoustics" level language on ceiling clouds, tunable absorbers, and related junk being thrown around in this thread? I'd love to self-educate.

-Matt
There's threads bouncing around on clouds. Not sure of your situation, but the one described in my build thread was "i have a degree in acoustics" approved.
#76
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #76
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In an honest attempt to get back to the OP's question... I don't believe the cd's remaining in front of the absorption are in an effort to add diffusion, but simply to retain the space he's currently using for storage. If this is the case, I'd submit the suggestion to focus the shelves towards the bottom and top of the unit, to minimize the reflections at ear level.

Truly, I'm embarrassed by what has transpired in the last few days
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#77
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai View Post
to get back to the OP's question... I don't believe the cd's remaining in front of the absorption are in an effort to add diffusion, but simply to retain the space he's currently using for storage.
bingo! that is correct.
#78
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post
Thanks, and I do try my best. The real "agenda" comes from guys like Lemonsqueezer who hate what I have to say about other aspects of recording and gear. So they make a point of following me around everywhere just to throw stones at me. If you'd like to see what sort of trouble-making jerk Lemonsqueezer really is, click the link in his sig.
Oh Ethan, are you not very good with computers?
#79
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemonsqueezer View Post
Oh Ethan, are you not very good with computers?
Classy. Way to steer RIGHT back off the OP's topic. Willie waving away!
#80
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
Hey man, I don't know you and don't care to get into it with you, but show me a preamp company that hangs on the forums and shows people how to build there product.
I just saying.
Why?
this is the acoustics forum.
#81
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badhorsie777 View Post
Classy. Way to steer RIGHT back off the OP's topic. Willie waving away!

Hey I am in England, its a classless society didn't you know?
#82
25th January 2010
Old 25th January 2010
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemonsqueezer View Post
Hey I am in England, its a classless society didn't you know?
Touche. I am silenced

-Matt
#83
26th January 2010
Old 26th January 2010
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d. gauss View Post
bingo! that is correct.
Hey! You're back...just in time. Sorry about the mess... I'll send my mom over straight away to clean it up.
#84
26th January 2010
Old 26th January 2010
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai View Post
No offense sir, and sorry to bring it up again, but I was under the impression that you were under no affiliation to the sale of acoustic products...
I don't have any affiliation with Steven Klein or any other acoustic designer.

-R
#85
26th January 2010
Old 26th January 2010
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai View Post
Let's face it, if you are in the acoustic forum, looking for advice on how to make your room sound better, this is a hobby for you.
Wrong again.

-R
#86
26th January 2010
Old 26th January 2010
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I was ready for this 2 days ago, but at this point...

My apologies for making assumptions.
#87
26th January 2010
Old 26th January 2010
  #87
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Accepted.

This is all about putting a little sound treatment up to make your room sound better. Lots of things to try. No need to get all hot about it.

-R
#88
26th January 2010
Old 26th January 2010
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemonsqueezer View Post
Why?
this is the acoustics forum.
#89
26th January 2010
Old 26th January 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras View Post
actually, maybe acoustics forum is a little inaccurate. Perhaps the "absorption, absorption, absorption" forum would be a little more precise.
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#90
26th January 2010
Old 26th January 2010
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemonsqueezer View Post
actually, maybe acoustics forum is a little inaccurate. Perhaps the "absorption, absorption, absorption" forum would be a little more precise.
wow your a pretty angry dude. Sorry I said anything. Just pointing out that maybe you are jumping on Ethan for some of the wrong reasons.
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