Stopping early reflections

[Taybot]

I'm trying to stop early reflections in my room and am overwhelmed by all this stuff. I have a square room with very high ceilings. I am trying to set my room up for recording but also mixing. I will be mixing my music in my room and I'm trying to get serious about mixing which is why I need to figure this stuff out.

I think I don't need to worry about diffusers, since I have a tiny room with tons of stuff in it. But I believe I have an issue with early reflections.

Can someone please tell me what exactly I should buy to stop HF reflections and where I can buy it at? I don't know how to build things so that is why I'm asking where I can buy it at.

I think what I need may be called HF baffling, does that sound right?

Sorry I know these sound like silly, basic questions but that is about the level I'm at ha.

Thanks a ton!

[Ethan Winer]

This explains the basics:

Early Reflections
How to set up a room

When someone asks where to buy stuff, it helps to say where you're located. If you add that to your profile, you'll never have to remember to include it in a post.

--Ethan

[SAC]

bnvbnbb

[PaulP]

Originally Posted by SAC

I know I will evoke much consternation on this forum for suggesting this, but properly designed and applied bass traps are a useful tool for addressing modal anomalies where the wavelengths are larger than the room dimensions - typically below 300 Hz. Here it is useful to look at events in the frequency domain (and also to limit the effectiveness of such bass traps to the modal frequencies).

I for one won't be consternated. You seem to know what you're talking
about and I'm sure lots of others besides myself will be happy to listen.

I have one question though. Does what you say, which makes sense to me
and is sort of what I've been trying to put together myself, apply to really
small rooms ? Say 12' x 15' x 9' (~4m x 5m x 3m) and smaller ?

For example, I'm under the impression that those that mention diffusion
have a minimum-sized room in mind that is bigger than what is normally
found in a house. You go even further suggesting we track the reflections
and, once we've pinpointed them, eliminate only them. Then suitably diffuse
what remains.

Is there enough room in a small room to do this ? Aren't most reflections
too early to be of use ? I can't quite grasp how you could let sound travel
a long enough path by absorbing unwanted reflections along the way so
that only the direct sound may continue to advance until some point
where it is no longer too early and can be subsequently diffused for
ambience.

I'm hoping it is in fact possible to do this sort of thing as I've been stumped
so far trying to figure out how.

As far as surgically attacking modal frequencies I'm all for that and hope
I'll be able to manage the calculations necessary to succeed in doing that.

Paul P

[Taybot]

thanks for the replies everyone. I'm in seattle. I just meant where can I order them online. I think I'm gonna go with some of those MiniTraps at RealTraps.com. Does that sounds like a good plan?

Also, I have very high ceilings. I thought this makes it better for treating early reflections there. Like I don't have to focus on my ceilings really because they're so high. Is that right?

Thanks for the reply SAC but I think obtaining ETC measurements is a little out of my league.

[SAC]

bnvbn

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Taybot

I have very high ceilings. I thought this makes it better for treating early reflections there. Like I don't have to focus on my ceilings really because they're so high. Is that right?

Yes, if your ceiling is 10 feet or higher above your head while sitting, then the reflections are no longer early. However, the corners up there would probably benefit from bass trapping. If you plan to buy from RealTraps, email us from our Contact page with your room dimensions, and maybe include one or two "distant" photos that show the entire room in context.

--Ethan

[SAC]

bvvbn

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by SAC

These times are most definitely within the ~1msec to 30 msec time offset which defines the Henry/Haas period.

That's way too much to read and comprehend on a Sunday morning. But you are correct that 20 milliseconds is an approximation for the "early" dividing line. The good news is that volume also is reduced over longer distances, so reflections from farther away are softer as well as later.

--Ethan

[Taybot]

Ethan,

So if I get just 2 mini traps (that is all I have the budget for right now ha), where is the best general place to put them. I'm thinking behind my speakers since my monitors are pretty close to the back wall.

I feel like the mini traps are a good basic way to help with both early reflections and bass. I know you have the High Frequency model but it seems like I should be good with the regular mini traps, do you think?

Thanks!

[SAC]

bvbarious adjacent boundaries.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Taybot

So if I get just 2 mini traps (that is all I have the budget for right now ha), where is the best general place to put them. I'm thinking behind my speakers since my monitors are pretty close to the back wall.

Without knowing anything about your room I can only guess. But the front left and right wall-wall corners are generally the best place to start.

--Ethan

[DanDan]

Taybot, In answer to your original question, do a search on the mirror trick. It's simple. Sit at your mix position. Have a friend move a mirror around the side walls. When the tweeter becomes visible, that's where to some absorption. You can simply wrap 703 or other semi rigid board in burlap to make some cheap absorbent panels. I would leave the FRK on, facing the wall, ideally with an airgap equal to the panel thickess.
DD

[Taybot]

Ok I took some pics, I'm going to measure my room soon and send everything to the real traps people.

About the mirror trick though, I will have my friend move the mirror around but can I turn my head toward the mirror to try to see my monitors? Or do I have to be looking at my computer and see the monitors out of the corner of my eye?

Also, SAC,

"...the most probable location would be the side walls and/or the work surface in which the speakers are placed - assuming they are on the work surface adjacent to your position."

My speakers are propped up on 2 speaker stands. How do I put these mini traps on the work surface? I don't think they will balance on the speaker stands, if that makes sense. Thanks for your help everyone!

[DanDan]

Tay, of course you can turn your head about. The mirror is showing you a path from the tweeter to your head, as in ear. This is a second unwanted path, you only want to hear the direct line of sight one. They fight like cats. Where the mirror shows the tweeter you place absorption. Even a blanket can help but I like 3-4 inches of fibre. This kills the second path and the sound, particularly the stereo imaging will improve dramatically.
You usually cannot deaden your table or desk but you can often move the stands so that a mirror on your desk no longer sees that tweeter.
DD

[SAC]

bnvbnbvn

[Taybot]

Ok a bunch of pics of my room are attached to this post. Ha it feels weird showing you all my room.

I still don't have the measurements of my room, I can't find anyone to help me measure it. I was hoping you smart people could get an idea of what my set-up looks like and give me some guidance as to where I should put these minitraps.

I was going to get the MiniTraps available at realtraps.com. I was going to get the normal MiniTraps, not the High Frequency model. Do you guys think that is the right idea? Again, I'm trying to take care of early reflections, but I think these MiniTraps help with bass too.

Thanks a ton!

[Ethan Winer]

Standard (not HF) MiniTraps are best used in corners, away from reflection points. For reflection points the HF type is needed. It's pretty much that simple.

--Ethan

[Taybot]

thanks ethan, so which kind do you think I need though, judging by the pics? Standard or the HF type?

[Ethan Winer]

You need both types.

When you're ready to order, give us a call and we'll make sure you get the best combination of traps.

--Ethan