ARC mesurments with basstraps installed is this normal?

[mdjice]

Hi I have a few bass traps, corner traps, foam for early reflection etc... I got the ARC a couple of days ago. I did all the mesurments (over 20) and I ended up with a graphic looking like this:


http://www.onlineflyer.com/images/photo.jpg
is this normal? it seams pretty extreme? also even though I gain in clarity and stereo imaging when the ARC is on, My kicks sound completely different..I mean it's not a small difference, it's HUGE the rest of the frequencies are ok but the kick sounds like a total different sample when the arc is on. is my room that jacked up? or is ARC working too hard?
I used an avalon 737 with preamp gain to o if it helps to know
thanks
PS: I know some of you guys selling acoustic are going to bash on the ARC...please don't I'm not trying to use it as a replacement for acoustic treatment but more for extra tweaking let's not make this an ARC hate thread like a few others threads turned out to be
thx

[Yiannis]

picture please.....


EDIT: found it

[jayman]

Had the exact same experience with arc. Mixed a whole record with a room FULL of treatment plus ARC. It did not translate well. I was really stoked about ARC at first because I thought wow, I guess this is how it's supposed to sound! Maybe it is, but I couldn't wrap my head around it. Haven't turned ARC back on since.... might try again sometime. I'd love to hear from others who have tried it without more reasonable results.

[Yiannis]

I am happy with the ARC.

I have enought traping in my room and ARC has helped for some fine tuning.

No translation problems so far!

edit: this is from the other threat
"with +10 db around 80hz and -6 db around 150 hz I think its normal to hear an "unusual" sound



why are you using high freq rolloff?"

[.T.]

Originally Posted by Yiannis

edit: this is from the other threat
"with +10 db around 80hz and -6 db around 150 hz I think its normal to hear an "unusual" sound



why are you using high freq rolloff?"

From memory, IK's manual (saw this on a review) mentioned this was a preferable setting to avoid mixing too bright.

[bobsandifer]

A few weeks ago I had to mix at another studio in my area that had quiet a bit of room treatment. Tons of bass traps and that cheap foam you see everywhere.

I took my monitors and used arc to get the room sounding more like I needed it to and got a very unusual reading. However, the job was done and the clients were very happy with the way the mix translated to other systems. I have learned to trust it. Even though it seems to FEEL and SOUND extreme at times it always works.

The BIG issue: When I have arc on while mixing on the nearfields you MUST take it off when you go to headphones. I give myself about 5 minutes between each transition and I never let my clients hear the phones mix until I am finished when using ARC.

[.T.]

Originally Posted by rsandifer

I took my monitors and used arc to get the room sounding more like I needed it to and got a very unusual reading. However, the job was done and the clients were very happy with the way the mix translated to other systems. I have learned to trust it. Even though it seems to FEEL and SOUND extreme at times it always works.

So you have the similar 'boom box' experiences listed as well? Has your mixing changed as a result of the ARC system or is it more or less the same?

[bobsandifer]

Originally Posted by .T.

So you have the similar 'boom box' experiences listed as well? Has your mixing changed as a result of the ARC system or is it more or less the same?

I use to spend quiet a bit of time checking my mixes on EVERYTHING i could find. Now I leave it to my mackies and mixcubes. It kinda feels like I take my room with me everywhere I go. So....I think my mixes are quicker now. When I charge by the hour I guess its not so good......LOL

I am building a new facility and as soon as I get the equipment moved in I have to start working. I'm not sure when I can take the time off to treat the room so I will just bring all of my bass traps in and use ARC.

[.T.]

Originally Posted by rsandifer

I use to spend quiet a bit of time checking my mixes on EVERYTHING i could find. Now I leave it to my mackies and mixcubes. It kinda feels like I take my room with me everywhere I go. So....I think my mixes are quicker now. When I charge by the hour I guess its not so good......LOL

I am building a new facility and as soon as I get the equipment moved in I have to start working. I'm not sure when I can take the time off to treat the room so I will just bring all of my bass traps in and use ARC.

Thanks for the info. It's good to hear some positive experiences as it looks like there's a lot of unhappiness with these room correction systems at GS.

[bobsandifer]

Originally Posted by .T.

it looks like there's a lot of unhappiness with these room correction systems at GS.

Spend more time here......you will learn...LOL
After over 25years in this business I have decided to just use what I like and what works best for me

[nonamesleft]

i have some room treatment and ARC as well and must say that my mixes have improved a lot with the system...in fact i will probably never give it up. Seriously, anyone telling you that room correction software, if made correctly, does not help and in fact will only make things worse, is either pimping room treatment, ignorant, or had a bad system. I remember setting up ARC the first time and thinking this eqing system sucks bad, then noticing that i eqed the whole thing with the mic positioned incorrectly...oops...then when it was done right, my mixes were instantly better. The biggest help for me has been to take my JBL's and slightly correct the mids and highs. ARC took my already decent speakers and fixed some issues i didn't really know they had...plus i use the mic on a consistent basis for a distant drum room mic...haha

of course, once ARC is done, i can't say i am a fan of the sound eq...but i am not a fan of "flat" eq i guess...it just works, gets rid of any hifi soeaker hype, and for that i am happy. In fact, i'd give up my rosetta 800, SCA pres, 1176, distressor, la3a, portico, and hammer eq before giving up ARC...it has made that big of a difference in my system.

the preamp i use for it by the way is the UA Solo 110 which is pretty clean, and I have used ARC in a number of rooms, and when it is done, they all sound very close to the same eq.

fwiw...

[mdjice]

Originally Posted by Yiannis

I am happy with the ARC.

I have enought traping in my room and ARC has helped for some fine tuning.

No translation problems so far!

edit: this is from the other threat
"with +10 db around 80hz and -6 db around 150 hz I think its normal to hear an "unusual" sound



why are you using high freq rolloff?"

I'm using the roll off because without it ARC makes every track sound pretty harsh especially on the Ss

What could cause such an odd graphic? wrong preamp? wrong mesurments?
here is a pic of my room:
PS: the extra speakers etc. were a setup for a Producer renting the place wanting his ownlistening are, its normaly not there

[mdjice]

here is the EQ wiz waterfall:
http://www.onlineflyer.com/images/coldchamber.jpg

[Brainchild]

mdjice-

Is that waterfall plot in your last post for the room without ARC running? It looks like the big dip from the ARC screenshot coincides with all the out-of-control ringing between 80 and 100Hz shown in the waterfall plot. On the other hand, that huge rise above 100Hz in the ARC screenshot is missing from the waterfall. Either way, there's obviously a major frequency imbalance in that range. You've got some long, isolated ringing at ~20Hz and ~40Hz, so undoubtedly there's a coincinde of lingering reverb from various surfaces building up and wreaking havoc by the time you get to 80Hz.

What are you looking to do to solve this issue? What are the options you're considering?

[mdjice]

Originally Posted by Brainchild

mdjice-

Is that waterfall plot in your last post for the room without ARC running? It looks like the big dip from the ARC screenshot coincides with all the out-of-control ringing between 80 and 100Hz shown in the waterfall plot. On the other hand, that huge rise above 100Hz in the ARC screenshot is missing from the waterfall. Either way, there's obviously a major frequency imbalance in that range. You've got some long, isolated ringing at ~20Hz and ~40Hz, so undoubtedly there's a coincinde of lingering reverb from various surfaces building up and wreaking havoc by the time you get to 80Hz.

What are you looking to do to solve this issue? What are the options you're considering?

Hi, no it's the room without the ARC, I'm going to get more bass traps etc... with the ARC, together that should fix it. don't really know how many and which kind/placement yet

[cooker]

Originally Posted by mdjice

Hi, no it's the room without the ARC, I'm going to get more bass traps etc... with the ARC, together that should fix it. don't really know how many and which kind/placement yet

Good idea, seems the pro's aren't stopping by this thread- pm them for ideas.

[Yiannis]

If you could,

move the speakers behind console.... could be better.

Put a cloud above mixing position.

Put some front bass trapping between your corner traps

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by cooker

seems the pro's aren't stopping by this thread

I've been following, but he said "I'm going to get more bass traps" which is the right approach, so I didn't feel anything more needed to be said.

--Ethan

[mdjice]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

I've been following, but he said "I'm going to get more bass traps" which is the right approach, so I didn't feel anything more needed to be said.

--Ethan

well the main problem was why the ARC is so OFF form my original source especially on kicks, I know I need more bass traps but is my room THAT off?

[mdjice]

Originally Posted by Yiannis

If you could,

move the speakers behind console.... could be better.

Put a cloud above mixing position.

Put some front bass trapping between your corner traps

the speakers are behind the console they are sitting on sound anchors and primacoustic recoils

[Yiannis]

Originally Posted by mdjice

you mean like this???

It doesn't look that the speakers are behind console in this picture.

Could be better if you move the stands more

Genelec Community - Tech Tips

[mdjice]

Originally Posted by Yiannis

It doesn't look that the speakers are behind console in this picture.

Could be better if you move the stands more

Genelec Community - Tech Tips

oh u mean BEHIND the console my bad I understood like NOT ON THE METER BRIDGE, my fault. well behind the console the sounds sounds...weird because the speakers would aim at "under " the console and the back of the DDA would be in the way of the speakers.

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

I've been following, but he said "I'm going to get more bass traps" which is the right approach, so I didn't feel anything more needed to be said.

Yep. I mean, we're really talking about affecting the region from 80Hz on up...40Hz and below is lower than you can deal with using a traditional absorptive trap. I know from our conversations in the past that you've got some challenges in terms of where to put stuff, but you've got some space on the front wall...maybe on the side of the booth facing the console...maybe some space on the back wall? You could also trap the peak of the ceiling above you.

The ARC system is making some pretty radical changes down low, that's for sure. It's a good system, but not the panacea for all acoustic ills...a few more bass traps ought to smooth things out down low enough for the ARC system to make more musical changes.

Frank

[Yiannis]

Here is my fuzz measure graph (green line is left speaker 1031a)
The big dip is due to asymmetry in my room.

Also I have attached the ARC measurement/correction which has helped me a lot.