DYI panels with Roxul - silly question

Mr. Varaldo · 29th September 2009

I've been looking and looking at threads bud didn't see any talking about this , so I figured I'd ask:

Why the need to build a wooden frame around the Roxul/OC703 material?

If the fiberglass provides all the sound trapping, could I just put together two 2" Roxul panels, wrap them with fabric, seal and put them on the wall?

It would be much easier and lighter to mount... what am I missing? Does the wooden frame adds something to the sound?

Sorry if it's a silly question...

TDT Music Group · 29th September 2009

The frame is just for design points and to add to the overall sturdiness of the absorber. It also looks more professional imo.

The frame also takes away from the absorber by decreasing the amount of surface area that the sound waves will hit and be absorbed into unless you cut some of the wood out of your frame.

Check out the thread where Cojo made some bass traps, his first design was without the cut frames and his second was with to give you an example. There is a lot of good info in that thread period.

Keep studying until you have clarity on the subject and know exactly what you want to accomplish and why.

peace!

Eatin Weenies · 29th September 2009

Not silly at all Mr. Varaldo,... in fact, quite an excellent one at that.

Perhaps you missed my riveting, highly entertaining and myth busting posts regarding the super effective and inexpensive "Weenie Trap", which was a basically the OC rigid fiberboard version of what you are figuring out for yourself and describing. The Malestrom of "feedback" which followed and preceded it disclosure,... was very illuminating indeed.

What you are suggesting would not only be safer from a fire standpoint, as the solution I offered had to do with using old foam, but also even more cost saving, as GOM is cheaper than foam, and Rockwool is less expensive than OC.

However, be sure to use the RIGID type, not the flexible type Rockwool panels, or you will most ceetainly need a wood frame.

You may also find that doing a frameless GOM/Rolux panel might look obviously "homemade". If that doesn't suit your fancy, check out the panels made by GIK, they seem to be a good value and look professional, at a price which won't sting your wallet at all.

Once again, I am

Eatin Weenies

Glenn Kuras · 29th September 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Varaldo

I've been looking and looking at threads bud didn't see any talking about this , so I figured I'd ask:

Why the need to build a wooden frame around the Roxul/OC703 material?

If the fiberglass provides all the sound trapping, could I just put together two 2" Roxul panels, wrap them with fabric, seal and put them on the wall?

It would be much easier and lighter to mount... what am I missing? Does the wooden frame adds something to the sound?

Sorry if it's a silly question...

As others have pointed out the frame is just to give it more of a finished look. So yes you can just wrap it and go. I will say though that if you go that route then stick with OC703 as Roxul is not as rigid.

Eatin Weenies · 29th September 2009

I forgot to mention, if this is being used in a basement type environment, and you are using Rockwool with no frame, be careful if you have excessive humidity issues, as your unframed rockwool trap may take on a very "flaccid" look over time with enough exposure to moisture (not to mention creating the perfect environment for potential mold growth).

Another good point to support the suggestion of the man from GIK to elect to go with the OC material over rockwool.

I shall return to,

Eatin Weenies

Glenn Kuras · 29th September 2009

If mineral wool would get mold then so would OC. Honestly if you have those kinds of moisture problems I would not put any recording gear there either.. thumbsup
Also mineral wool will not loss it shape but the edges will not be as nice. In fact fabric wrapped OC doesn't look all that great either. Most companies that use OC that are plain wrapped harden the edges with resin from what I have seen.

Mr. Varaldo · 30th September 2009

Thank you all for the replies

Very informative

I'll keep reading and perhaps attempt to create my own panels...

Eatin Weenies · 4th October 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

If mineral wool would get mold then so would OC. Honestly if you have those kinds of moisture problems I would not put any recording gear there either.. thumbsup
Also mineral wool will not loss it shape but the edges will not be as nice. In fact fabric wrapped OC doesn't look all that great either. Most companies that use OC that are plain wrapped harden the edges with resin from what I have seen.

Yes, this is true, however I recall reading an article ( I shall have to check my files to refresh myself) which stated something to the effect that Rockwool has an organic property not shared by OC, which actually encourages mold growth beyond the norm in certain environmental conditions.

As I say, I shall have to consult my files before I can state exactly what the findings and conclusions of the articles author were.

As it stands now, it only remains as a fragmented factoid of sundry information rattling around in my loosely wrapped mind.

I shall keep you posted, in the meantime, please pardon me while I get back to,

Eatin Weenies

Sha-Zam · 6th October 2009

One of the most visible mfg's of rockwool is Roxul. They have a diverse line of products that are designed for various situations, some of which include high moisture content situations. One of their industrial product lines is the RHT series (40, 60, 80, 100, 120, which correspond with their densities of nominal 4lbs/c.f. 6lbs/c.f. 8lbs/c.f. 10bs/c.f. 12lbs/c.f.) which have excellent moisture resistance. Specs are listed here. They are apparently "rigid" so I would expect that they would hold up fine, especially considering they are industrial products.

I agree with Glen, that if the environment is THAT moist you shouldn't have studio equipment in it. Unless of course its just used as a big iso booth from time to time, and the mics are not left there, then I could see wanting to have panels there without equipment.

Glenn Kuras · 6th October 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sha-Zam

One of the most visible mfg's of rockwool is Roxul. They have a diverse line of products that are designed for various situations, some of which include high moisture content situations. One of their industrial product lines is the RHT series (40, 60, 80, 100, 120, which correspond with their densities of nominal 4lbs/c.f. 6lbs/c.f. 8lbs/c.f. 10bs/c.f. 12lbs/c.f.) which have excellent moisture resistance. Specs are listed here. They are apparently "rigid" so I would expect that they would hold up fine, especially considering they are industrial products.

I agree with Glen, that if the environment is THAT moist you shouldn't have studio equipment in it. Unless of course its just used as a big iso booth from time to time, and the mics are not left there, then I could see wanting to have panels there without equipment.

Thanks for that info as mineral wool is used in ships, buildings and so on. If there was a mold problem it would never be used.

Eatin Weenies · 8th October 2009

Eureka!!! I finally discovered when I had read about Rockwool growing mold.

The good news fellow Gearslutz is that this condition SHOULD NEVER be a factor in your basement recording studio,... as the man from GIK pointed out so rightly,... a great source of knowledge that man is,... unless if course, like the dubious folks in the thread from another forum, who use Rockwool for a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT commercial application

, in which they actually and by design, add water to the rockwool as part of their Hydroponic system tutt,... hence the super dampened state of their Rockwool,... therefore the surface mold growth.

For those who might be interested, here is the link to the thread concerning mold and Rockwool White mold on rockwool? - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums

As I say this SHOULD not be a situation in someone recording studio,.. unless your name is Bob Marley, but I knew I had read about this factoid somewhere.

Ah well,... just because you are gifted/blessed with an audiographic and photographic memory, that doesn't come with the power to remember WHERE you received the information.

And now, so I can curb my munchies

, I shall be listening to Led Zeppelin while I am,

Eatin Weenies

29th September 2009	#1
Mr. Varaldo Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,540 Thread Starter	DYI panels with Roxul - silly question I've been looking and looking at threads bud didn't see any talking about this , so I figured I'd ask: Why the need to build a wooden frame around the Roxul/OC703 material? If the fiberglass provides all the sound trapping, could I just put together two 2" Roxul panels, wrap them with fabric, seal and put them on the wall? It would be much easier and lighter to mount... what am I missing? Does the wooden frame adds something to the sound? Sorry if it's a silly question... __________________ My synth website: SynthMania.com My YouTube channel: SynthManiaDotCom My current gear: GarageBand, Casio VL-1, microKORG

29th September 2009	#3
Eatin Weenies Gear interested Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 26	Not silly at all Mr. Varaldo,... in fact, quite an excellent one at that. Perhaps you missed my riveting, highly entertaining and myth busting posts regarding the super effective and inexpensive "Weenie Trap", which was a basically the OC rigid fiberboard version of what you are figuring out for yourself and describing. The Malestrom of "feedback" which followed and preceded it disclosure,... was very illuminating indeed. What you are suggesting would not only be safer from a fire standpoint, as the solution I offered had to do with using old foam, but also even more cost saving, as GOM is cheaper than foam, and Rockwool is less expensive than OC. However, be sure to use the RIGID type, not the flexible type Rockwool panels, or you will most ceetainly need a wood frame. You may also find that doing a frameless GOM/Rolux panel might look obviously "homemade". If that doesn't suit your fancy, check out the panels made by GIK, they seem to be a good value and look professional, at a price which won't sting your wallet at all. Once again, I am Eatin Weenies __________________ COMMON SENSE *is a FREE but SCARCE commodity*

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29th September 2009	#2
TDT Music Group Gear nut Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 130	The frame is just for design points and to add to the overall sturdiness of the absorber. It also looks more professional imo. The frame also takes away from the absorber by decreasing the amount of surface area that the sound waves will hit and be absorbed into unless you cut some of the wood out of your frame. Check out the thread where Cojo made some bass traps, his first design was without the cut frames and his second was with to give you an example. There is a lot of good info in that thread period. Keep studying until you have clarity on the subject and know exactly what you want to accomplish and why. peace!

29th September 2009	#6
Glenn Kuras Gear Guru Joined: Jul 2005 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 11,995	If mineral wool would get mold then so would OC. Honestly if you have those kinds of moisture problems I would not put any recording gear there either.. thumbsup Also mineral wool will not loss it shape but the edges will not be as nice. In fact fabric wrapped OC doesn't look all that great either. Most companies that use OC that are plain wrapped harden the edges with resin from what I have seen.

30th September 2009	#7
Mr. Varaldo Lives for gear Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,540 Thread Starter	Thank you all for the replies Very informative I'll keep reading and perhaps attempt to create my own panels...

6th October 2009	#9
Sha-Zam Gear maniac Joined: Dec 2008 Location: 9:32 Posts: 160	One of the most visible mfg's of rockwool is Roxul. They have a diverse line of products that are designed for various situations, some of which include high moisture content situations. One of their industrial product lines is the RHT series (40, 60, 80, 100, 120, which correspond with their densities of nominal 4lbs/c.f. 6lbs/c.f. 8lbs/c.f. 10bs/c.f. 12lbs/c.f.) which have excellent moisture resistance. Specs are listed here. They are apparently "rigid" so I would expect that they would hold up fine, especially considering they are industrial products. I agree with Glen, that if the environment is THAT moist you shouldn't have studio equipment in it. Unless of course its just used as a big iso booth from time to time, and the mics are not left there, then I could see wanting to have panels there without equipment.

8th October 2009	#11
Eatin Weenies Gear interested Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 26	Eureka!!! I finally discovered when I had read about Rockwool growing mold. The good news fellow Gearslutz is that this condition SHOULD NEVER be a factor in your basement recording studio,... as the man from GIK pointed out so rightly,... a great source of knowledge that man is,... unless if course, like the dubious folks in the thread from another forum, who use Rockwool for a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT commercial application , in which they actually and by design, add water to the rockwool as part of their Hydroponic system tutt,... hence the super dampened state of their Rockwool,... therefore the surface mold growth. For those who might be interested, here is the link to the thread concerning mold and Rockwool White mold on rockwool? - International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums As I say this SHOULD not be a situation in someone recording studio,.. unless your name is Bob Marley, but I knew I had read about this factoid somewhere. Ah well,... just because you are gifted/blessed with an audiographic and photographic memory, that doesn't come with the power to remember WHERE you received the information. And now, so I can curb my munchies , I shall be listening to Led Zeppelin while I am, Eatin Weenies