Bass traps - the more the merrier??

[PhilDarg]

I received a free room analysis from Auralex, and I began to treat my room. I have LENrd bass traps in each corner, and a pair of Venus bass traps in the center rear of the room; additional foam and diffusors are being placed on most of the walls.

Question: My room is about 13.5' by 18.5 (rectangular); would I benefit from adding additional Venus bass traps on the SIDES of the room? They (auarlex) did not specify this in their analysis, however I have noticed a big difference in mounting one set of Venus bass traps - would mounting another set help the sound even more? Is there such a thing as too much bass trapping? Is there a better (flatter, cheaper) alternative for the sides?

Thanks!

[mobius.media]

too much just means too dead, which is subjective, so yes and no.

personally i find totally dead rooms creepy. others love them.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by PhilDarg

I received a free room analysis from Auralex, and I began to treat my room. I have LENrd bass traps in each corner, and a pair of Venus bass traps in the center rear of the room; additional foam and diffusors are being placed on most of the walls.

Question: My room is about 13.5' by 18.5 (rectangular); would I benefit from adding additional Venus bass traps on the SIDES of the room? They (auarlex) did not specify this in their analysis, however I have noticed a big difference in mounting one set of Venus bass traps - would mounting another set help the sound even more? Is there such a thing as too much bass trapping? Is there a better (flatter, cheaper) alternative for the sides?

Thanks!

It is pretty hard to have to much bass trapping but you can over deaden the high end. If you want to add more bass traps (a good thing) then maybe look at panels that absorb more of the low end then hight end so the room does not go "dead". BTW no plug but that would be like our bass traps and Ethans. If building traps use OC703 and face it with FRK to help reflect some of the highs back into the room.

[PhilDarg]

Owens Corning 703 comes in 1-inch, 2-inch, or 4-inch thickness - do you recommend the 4-inch?

[Glenn Kuras]

Yes on the 4". If you can't get it in the 4" you can use 1" or 2" and stack them together to make a 4" panel.

[PhilDarg]

Okay - thanks!

Last question: what is FRK?

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by PhilDarg

what is FRK?

Density Report

It's a paper facing that 1) reflects mids and highs a little, and 2) increases absorption at low frequencies. So it's a win-win. Glenn gave you the right advice.

--Ethan

[TheEqualizer]

Ethan's right. Too many bass traps can be a bad thing, deaden the room too much and mess with your highs and mids.

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by TheEqualizer

Ethan's right. Too many bass traps can be a bad thing, deaden the room too much and mess with your highs and mids.

I agree, but with small rooms "dead" (meaning appropriately short decay times across the spectrum) is usually the only option. The OP's room is just big enough that he might be able to get away with a more live sound.

Frank

[Wiz_Oz]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

Density Report

It's a paper facing that 1) reflects mids and highs a little, and 2) increases absorption at low frequencies. So it's a win-win. Glenn gave you the right advice.

--Ethan

Am I right in understanding..that using normal butcher or craft paper, or some sort of thin plastic placed between the insulation, and the fabric covering is the same as gettting insulation with the FRK facing?

Could I have phrased that worse...,,


Maybe this is better...If I want to add FRK type material to my DIY bass traps....would paper such as grocery bag paper, plastic similar to what insulation comes in when it comes in bags, be appropriate?


cheers and thanks

Wiz

[jamsparx]

I too am hoping the plastic the insulation comes in will work to the same or similar effect.... Seems a few folk without fsk have done that for the corner traps?

[Glenn Kuras]

Am I right in understanding..that using normal butcher or craft paper, or some sort of thin plastic placed between the insulation, and the fabric covering is the same as gettting insulation with the FRK facing?

Yes

I want to clarify something Frank say about dead rooms. People misunderstand this because they think of a dead room that is covered in thin material (like foam) but actually that room is not "dead" but over absorbed on the highs with the mids and lows reflecting all over. It gives that very icky sound/feeling that so many of us have heard/felt when in a room like that. The key is to absorb as much of the low end as possible without "over doing" the high end. That is the reason (well one of them) for having the facing on the traps.

[PhilDarg]

Hey guys,

One last question: I can choose between using Auralex Q'fusor diffusors or Auralex 2" 2'x2' foam to cover parts of the wall to reduce flutter echo - which is preferable? Or should I use a combination of both?

Thanks again!

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by PhilDarg

I can choose between using Auralex Q'fusor diffusors or Auralex 2" 2'x2' foam to cover parts of the wall to reduce flutter echo - which is preferable?

Are those really your only choices?

--Ethan

[Wiz_Oz]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

Yes

I want to clarify something Frank say about dead rooms. People misunderstand this because they think of a dead room that is covered in thin material (like foam) but actually that room is not "dead" but over absorbed on the highs with the mids and lows reflecting all over. It gives that very icky sound/feeling that so many of us have heard/felt when in a room like that. The key is to absorb as much of the low end as possible without "over doing" the high end. That is the reason (well one of them) for having the facing on the traps.

Thnks again...

you know, if you ever come to Oz, there is a beer here chillin for you..thumbsup


cheers

Wiz

[PhilDarg]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

Are those really your only choices?

--Ethan

No - I suppose not, but this is what I have readily available.

I guess what I am aksing is: if I have to choose between using diffusors or 2" - 2'x2' foam squares, which would work best to cover spaces between bass traps?

[mobius.media]

Originally Posted by PhilDarg

Hey guys,

One last question: I can choose between using Auralex Q'fusor diffusors or Auralex 2" 2'x2' foam to cover parts of the wall to reduce flutter echo - which is preferable? Or should I use a combination of both?

Thanks again!

You'll probably have to try both and see what you prefer. Perhaps start with some diffusor panels since I imagine they're more returnable/exchangeable than foam.

I've never used the Auralex diffusors, but I imagine from looking at them the deeper T'fusors may be more effective.

Too many diffusors can sound a little odd as well, but in a different way from too much absorption, so you'll have to figure out what balance you like best.

Obviously, the ideal solution would be to move in here:


But of course we have to make do with what we have and that usually involves a compromise no matter how you approach it.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by Wiz_Oz

Thnks again...

you know, if you ever come to Oz, there is a beer here chillin for you..thumbsup


cheers

Wiz

thumbsupthumbsup

[DanDan]

Phildarg, use a room mode calculator to identify your lowest few modes.
This one here give a pictorial idea of where the high pressure zones will occor.
hunecke.de | Room Eigenmodes Calculator
To convince yourself try this- Generate a sine wave at the lowest mode. You may have to sweep around the calculated frequency. When you hit the spot you will know all about it, the earth will move......
Now move about the room and find the hot spots, hint- corners, all of them. Be aware that some modes create a pressure zone covering a whole wall surface rather than just a corner. That huneke will show this very well.
You could use a SLM but ears will work fine also.
Write down your observations. Give the high zones a number out of 10 or actual level from the SLM.
Repeat for the next couple of modes upwards.
Compare your numbers.
It should become very obvious where you need to put the Bass Traps.
There are never enough Bass Traps in the small rooms we are normally confined to these days.
DD

[PhilDarg]

Originally Posted by DanDan

There are never enough Bass Traps in the small rooms we are normally confined to these days.
DD

Ah . . . that's what I suspected. My theory is that I am better off using more bass traps rather than just foam or diffusors on the side/front walls.

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by PhilDarg

Ah . . . that's what I suspected. My theory is that I am better off using more bass traps rather than just foam or diffusors on the side/front walls.

Your theory is correct!

Frank

[PhilDarg]

Okay . . . this is going to increase the budget for this project, but it's worth it if it makes the mic'ed sources sound better.

I would like to use th OC703 4" since it's cheaper - but I just found out that each panel weighs about 16 pounds apiece! What are some methods to secure something that heavy to the wall?

The Auralex Venus bass traps are more expensive, but they are lightweight.

[Brian Brock]

in general, the denser materials seem to be more absorptive of bass frequencies than the lighter, up to a point, after which greater density creates greater reflectivity

[TDT Music Group]

That's gotta be a misprint. I was holding some OC703 2" I cant imagine just by going to 4" it would increase the weight 100x. Gotta be a misprint. That's funny who told you that?

Originally Posted by PhilDarg

Okay . . . this is going to increase the budget for this project, but it's worth it if it makes the mic'ed sources sound better.

I would like to use th OC703 4" since it's cheaper - but I just found out that each panel weighs about 16 pounds apiece! What are some methods to secure something that heavy to the wall?

The Auralex Venus bass traps are more expensive, but they are lightweight.

[AwwDeOhh]

Originally Posted by PhilDarg

Ah . . . that's what I suspected. My theory is that I am better off using more bass traps rather than just foam or diffusors on the side/front walls.

If you are in a smallish room, i would totally recommend using as many bass traps as you can fit/afford!
I went from a "Pro" auralex crap-trap package (which don't get me wrong.. if high's alone are the issue, then it can work wonders.. but usually the low freq are the problem!)...

...To several OC703 panels @ 4" & 6" thick... and the difference is night and day! (if your room sounds good naturally, or if there are slight issues.. a few traps can tune the room... but if your home studio is anything like mine [an acoustic nightmare], then it IMO is waaayy better to have it totally dead, then add in any 'room' you may need after the fact!

And as far as the weight thing goes... i think those weights were including a full wooden frame.. you can hang them with any professional picture hanger that you'll find at nearly any hardware store. (takes two-three nails for each hook)

[Eatin Weenies]

And let us not forget, to really get that Expensive Foam you have already bought to actually perform well across the entire frequency spectrum, simply back it with some OC, up to 4" and leave and air gap of 1" between the trap and the wall,.... that's a great way to "supe up" that foam you have.

Again, I am,

Eatin Weenies

[PhilDarg]

Ah, okay . . . I am learning much here.

So, 4" 2x4 panels of OC703 don't weigh that much without a wood frame? There's an outfit close to here that ships a box of 3 and its shipping weight is 60 pounds . . . what's up with that?

I would love to just get 3 - 4" 2x4 panels, wrap them in a cover, and hang them on the side walls. If they're lightweight . . . then no problem!

I'll look into this some more.

Here's the product link:

OWENS CORNING 703 - 4 [oc703-4] - $79.99 : Ready Acoustics!, Hear - Sound - Better

[DanDan]

Don't sweat the mounting. Take a look at all the examples of DIY at studiotips - tips on studio design, acoustics, and wiring and here and at John Sayers Productions The wood frame can add a lot of weight but good plasterboard plugs, the ones with the wings, would hold any of this stuff up.
703 is 3 pounds per cubic foot. Simple math will get you the weight of a raw panel.
Wrapped in fabric they will hang on velcro or on a protruding nail or screw.
DD

[PhilDarg]

If that formula is correct, then each panel would weigh about 8 pounds plus the negliible weight of its cover - I think that would work okay!

Last question: does OC703 4" typically have the shiny facing (on one side) referred to earlier in this post?

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by PhilDarg

If that formula is correct, then each panel would weigh about 8 pounds plus the negliible weight of its cover - I think that would work okay!

Last question: does OC703 4" typically have the shiny facing (on one side) referred to earlier in this post?

You can buy it faced and unfaced.