time for some treatment in my studio/rehearsal room

[iwobic]

Hi all,

i spent all of my summer holidays building my new studio.
here 's the link to the photo diary my new home studio/rehearsal room - Bergamo - Italy


now that the soundproofing is completed it's time for the acoustic treatment.

i know very little about this matter, the room is quite small (4.8m l x 3.5m w x 2.3m h) and I will play/record/mix drums all in the same room.
As far as I know, when play drums in such a small room it's reccomended to completely deaden the room and then add reverb in the mixing (correct me if i'm wrong), but in this case I'll be also mixing in the same room plus I don't want to spend a fortune on some ugly foam that will make my room look cheap and smaller....I rather build myself some rockwool panells and bass traps...but the question is, how many? and where to place them?



tnx

[ScottTunes]

Your room is similar in size to mine (my room is 14x13x9 in feet - sorry I don't have time to convert to metric)... on the "smaller" side.

First, bass trap the whole ceiling with 6 inches of Owens Corning 703, or equivalent. Leave as much air gap between the ceiling and traps as possible - 4" is good, 6" is better, etc.

Then trap all of the corners w/ at least 4" depth, wall-to-ceiling as well as wall-to-wall. I'll be redoing my corners with 2" OC703, with the "foil" facing into the room, and a second layer of 2" 703 without foil... This traps bass without killing all the higher frequencies.

For the walls, its best to be able to add or remove broad band bass traps and/or diffusion as needed - drier, more dead for mixing, livelier for recording. Take special care in first reflection zones for mixing. Those are critical to good mixes, and should be absorbed...

Its also best to leave the floor bare, and add rugs on an as needed basis. bare floors and absorbing ceilings are the most important ingredient in "psycho-acoustics." As it has been said many times (I learned all I know from this and a couple other sites), our ears are accustomed to hearing reflections from the floor (since our height changes very little)... And absorbing or dead ceilings "sound infinite," as in no reflection.

Experimenting within your room to find the best mic position, and sound, is going to take time, just as learning new monitor speakers. Once the room is tune to your liking, it will give you great pleasure to make/record music in it!

I'm headed to your studio photo file now...

Cheers!

[iwobic]

Hi tifftunes, thanks for advices but my room's height is only 2.3m (about 7.6ft) if i bass trap all the ceiling with 6" bass traps and placed 4" away from the ceiling i think i won't be able to enter the room any more....

[Glenn Kuras]

Your getting great advice from the above. Just to add.

For the walls, its best to be able to add or remove broad band bass traps and/or diffusion as needed - drier, more dead for mixing, livelier for recording. Take special care in first reflection zones for mixing. Those are critical to good mixes, and should be absorbed...

What Are Early Reflection Points. SPOTLIGHT:Bob Ebeling - Revolution Studio


Set up in the room is also very important. For the mix spot you want to face the short wall and sit back around 38% of the room. You may find that moving forward or back from there will yield the best response. See the following as a guide for your room set up.

GIK Acoustics: Room Setup

[iwobic]

thanks Glenn!

so is there a specific placement for the drumset as well?

do i really need to apply traps that thick over the whole ceiling? cause that would make the room unusable...

would rockwool be ok for bass trapping? over here fiberglass is 3 times the price of rockwool...

[iwobic]

i've made a very quick sketch of what the room is like (i'm not good with this program)..






and this is the sketch-up file...

std treatment.skp

[Glenn Kuras]

do i really need to apply traps that thick over the whole ceiling? cause that would make the room unusable...

I don't think you need to cover the whole ceiling, but maybe use 4" in the early reflection area over the mix spot. For over the drum set (I like your set up) I would put 2" panels above that to help with any kind of CRAP! (very tech term) you will get off the ceiling.

[iwobic]

-so i'll start off by making three 4" panells for early-reflections (2 on lateral walls reflection points and 1 on ceiling midway between me and the monitors).

-then i'll make 2" panells to apply on the ceiling right above the drumset


is all this correct?




...excuse my bad english...

[Glenn Kuras]

sounds right. But you also want panels for the corners and back wall.

[iwobic]

so it would look more or less like this...




plus some other 2" panells on the walls right around the drumset...

[Glenn Kuras]

The only thing I don't like, now that I look closer is your mix spot is off to one side. Can you flip it to have the left and right more equal?

[iwobic]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

The only thing I don't like, now that I look closer is your mix spot is off to one side. Can you flip it to have the left and right more equal?

yeah i know...:(

what do you mean by "flip it"?

put it on the longer wall? or push it more in front of the door?

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by iwobic

yeah i know...:(

what do you mean by "flip it"?

put it on the longer wall? or push it more in front of the door?

Push it more in the middle or flip it to face the wall behind you and put the drums where the mix spot is now.

[iwobic]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

Push it more in the middle or flip it to face the wall behind you and put the drums where the mix spot is now.

i think i'll try to push it more in the middle (hoping that it won't be obstruct the doorway), putting it against the other wall would be worse since there's another door there and that's even more toward the centre of the wall.

[ThomasWho]

I hope it`s okay that I jump in on this thread. I have a similar situation only my room is longer (about 7meters) .

I was planning on covering almost all free areas with 4inch panels. Maybe this is overkill , ? Looking at those drawings there`S a lot of free areas.

I might add that the panels I`m buying are rockwool with the white "coating" on the front that I believe reflects some of the highs back.

Thanks!

Thomas

[johndykstra]

Here's my take:

pull the desk out a bit...you don't want to be that close to the front wall anyway.

front and back wall are 6" thick rockwool

wall and corner panels are 4" thick...those in front of doors will have to be on movable stands

super chunk bass trap opposite couch on the floor as to mimic for symmetry

I'd also put 2"-4" thick clouds above the desk/chair and drums... but keep them centered width-wise to maintain mixing symmetry.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by ThomasWho

I hope it`s okay that I jump in on this thread. I have a similar situation only my room is longer (about 7meters) .

I was planning on covering almost all free areas with 4inch panels. Maybe this is overkill , ? Looking at those drawings there`S a lot of free areas.

I might add that the panels I`m buying are rockwool with the white "coating" on the front that I believe reflects some of the highs back.

Thanks!

Thomas

Just don't use any kind of facing for the early reflection points.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai

Here's my take:

pull the desk out a bit...you don't want to be that close to the front wall anyway.

front and back wall are 6" thick rockwool

wall and corner panels are 4" thick...those in front of doors will have to be on movable stands

super chunk bass trap opposite couch on the floor as to mimic for symmetry

I'd also put 2"-4" thick clouds above the desk/chair and drums... but keep them centered width-wise to maintain mixing symmetry.

Well done!

[iwobic]

Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai

Here's my take:

pull the desk out a bit...you don't want to be that close to the front wall anyway.

front and back wall are 6" thick rockwool

wall and corner panels are 4" thick...those in front of doors will have to be on movable stands

super chunk bass trap opposite couch on the floor as to mimic for symmetry

I'd also put 2"-4" thick clouds above the desk/chair and drums... but keep them centered width-wise to maintain mixing symmetry.

Hi Dykstraster, thanks for the designing but my desk is actually 2.1m long and the couch is 2.25m long, this makes it more difficult to position the forniture in the room, plus the drum in reality is much more bigger than what it is in the drawing...
do you guys thins putting the desk on one of the longer wals would be ok?

[Glenn Kuras]

It is always best to fire the speaker down the long wall.

[johndykstra]

A wider desk would still be fine... cumbersome yes...but fine. A loveseat/ smaller sofa may be a good idea. Should still be room for a larger kit as well.

Definately stick with the current desk orientation.

[iwobic]

Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai

A wider desk would still be fine... cumbersome yes...but fine. A loveseat/ smaller sofa may be a good idea. Should still be room for a larger kit as well.

Definately stick with the current desk orientation.

ok, i'll try this set up, i'll start with a few less panels and then i'll add them untill i reach the right sound

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by iwobic

ok, i'll try this set up, i'll start with a few less panels and then i'll add them untill i reach the right sound

Understood.

The problem with less panels is this:

You want the front and back walls, and all of the corners to tame the bass response. You definately want your side walls covered at the mix position for first reflections. At this point, the flutter echo at the tracking end of the room is going to be extremely apparent, because you've already reduced so many other problems. If you want to try less panels on the "back" of the room, break up the bare parellel surfaces with a mic shelf, or lamps, or plants, or whatever...

[iwobic]

Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai

Understood.

The problem with less panels is this:

You want the front and back walls, and all of the corners to tame the bass response. You definately want your side walls covered at the mix position for first reflections. At this point, the flutter echo at the tracking end of the room is going to be extremely apparent, because you've already reduced so many other problems. If you want to try less panels on the "back" of the room, break up the bare parellel surfaces with a mic shelf, or lamps, or plants, or whatever...

in order to create some kind of diffusion..correct?


i'll try this way first, then if it's not enough i'll make some more panels...


would diffusion on the back wall (behind the drums) be an option? (i know! if it's not complicated, i don't like it!!)

[johndykstra]

diffusion on the back wall, while an option, is not as important as the 6" thick bass trap. some diffusion in front of the trap is cool, but perhaps better utilized on the side walls

[ThomasWho]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

Just don't use any kind of facing for the early reflection points.

Thanks Glenn ! (Early reflection points would be the walls and ceiling aroung the mix position right ? And where the speakers are "pointing" on the side/back walls?)

Thomas

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by ThomasWho

Thanks Glenn ! (Early reflection points would be the walls and ceiling aroung the mix position right ? And where the speakers are "pointing" on the side/back walls?)

Thomas

Not so much the back wall but YES the side walls the ceiling.

[ThomasWho]

Thanks Glenn !