What to do with an old mattress?

Bootis · 5th September 2009

Hello, I'm in a band that plays in my friend's basement. Its a finished basement to a degree, the playing space is square, about 18'x24', 3 concrete walls, and one 24' wall of thin drywall, concrete floor with thin carpet, finished but thin ceiling, with a big hollow aluminum heat vent running across it. No furniture down there, just gear. So it really sounds horrible.

We are getting the supplies together to build about a dozen panels to put up around the room, but that's probably a few weeks away, and I can't take another practice down there the way it is now. So my roommate donated a big, heavy futon mattress. Whats the best place to hang that mattress to maximize it's potential to make the room sound a little better? Also, the drums are set up in front of the drywall, would they be better in front of a concrete wall or does it not really matter?

Thanks for any advice

Ethan Winer · 6th September 2009

The only thing that mattress is good for is entertaining lady friends.

Maybe put it behind the drums standing upright?

--Ethan

bitman · 5th August 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

The only thing that mattress is good for is entertaining lady friends.

Maybe put it behind the drums standing upright?

--Ethan

I am replacing a king sized mattress this weekend.
Why might I put the old one behind the drums?

I want to do that but not for nothing.

SAC · 5th August 2010

What to do with an old mattress?

Rent it out as housing for bedbugs and dust mites.

amishsixstringe · 5th August 2010

I just burned 2 of them on a bon fire last weekend!

Neil

Phroggy · 5th August 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by SAC

What to do with an old mattress?

Rent it out as housing for bedbugs and dust mites.

Talking about bed bugs.... I think I kinda missed them.

SAC · 5th August 2010

On a weird but more serious note...

Regarding the pesky bedbugs, be particularly careful in hotels. I have discovered an effective and simple check, which is to check behind the headboard for signs of them - they seem to like to hide there and its a good quick 'sanity' check upon first entering the room before getting settled...

(Oh, and be careful of your bags/luggage storage as well, as they are a great vector for bringing the buggers home. I have even begun to carry a mothball or two in a baggie for each bag to open when leaving the bags in the room to discourage their picking up any stowaways.)

Call me Chicken Little, but I have encountered them twice now in less than a year in both San Francisco and in Manhattan in nice hotels.

heidi · 5th August 2010

To add something on topic: I have three practise room for rent. This is in an office building with very thin plaster walls. When I set the rooms up, I had to decide how to deaden the sound so that practising in one room would not interfere with practising in the others. I had an expert in, and he told me, I had to plaster all the rooms with rockwool about 20 cm thick to get any effect. Just for doing the measuring he asket 1800 € ( about 2000 Dollar I´d estimate).
I finally decided on a cheaper version and plastered the walls with matresses.
The cost nothing and I fixed them with a stapler, covering with fabric.

Now I´m even mixing next to the practise rooms. I´d never have thought this would work out but it did.

Now regarding your problem with the practise room sounding awful, I´d say if you put a matress on the wall behind the drums or even anywhrer it will help the sound. My experience is that it is important to have walls behind the drumset treated because it takes the sharpest twinges out of the cymbals.

I believe the drywall is the better place for the drums. I have two rooms with drums backed on drywalls and on where the drums are in the outside corner with concrete walls. It´s this one room that is generally used less, sound in the other rooms seems to be better. It also might help a little if you have some heavy curtains or a carpet on the walls or some of these small cartons that eggs are sold in. If there is space (I can´t get the hang of these feet/inch measurements) put in a sofa or some lounge chair, or some other furniture.

Mister Fox · 19th January 2012

Sorry to dig out this old thread, but hey... I'm a GS member, so less new threads, up with the old ones.

Aside from "entertaining lady friends" and cultivating bedbugs, I still have a 140x200cm (55"x78") and about 15cm thick (6") thick Ikea mattress in my studio (which is basically a reconstucted and optimized 28sqm living room as part of a 44sqm apartement). I mean, I need to sleep on something if I don't have a couch with bed-mode in there... er... yet (I have comfy chairs for the time being, but they're not good for sleeping).

I was thinking of building a rig in my 10qm recording environment that is directly the opposite of my studio window. The ceiling and corners are planned to utilize proper broadband absorbtion with DIY rockwool panels. In other words, I'd clamp the mattress in a vertical standing position to the wall to have enough space for recording and acting as additional broadband absorber. And IKEA stuff can be abused for studio stuff quite well, so why should this not work?

Years ago I alienated a 90x200cm (35,4"x78") matresses for "reducing" a large and untreated room (setup behind the host's position) for a hobby radio broadcast and it worked quite well. It was basically a poor-man's GOBO.

So... any reasons against that "mattress + wall mount = Broadband Absorber" idea?
Again, it would provide a sleeping accommodation. And due to the rig, the room will be tidied up and gets another broadband absorption/bass trap.

It would just be nice to know the absorption coefficients.

mtbdudex · 20th January 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Fox

Sorry to dig out this old thread, but hey... I'm a GS member, so less new threads, up with the old ones.

It would just be nice to know the absorption coefficients.

Before/after measurements, reverse engineer them, share for future "existing material" members on a budget....

Mister Fox · 21st January 2012

A possibility indeed. But isn't it possible to get a somewhat guestimation due to the size of the mattress and maybe even if you know what material is (inside)?

IanMichaelFafard · 22nd January 2012

If it were a box spring then you could at least use it as a frame to stuff with some 4 -6 lb\cubic foot mineral wool or OC, but a mattress I would just throw out. I've though of strange things like that in the past and part of us wants to believe we can save tons of money and turn it into something great but there is not much functionality to a mattress.

Derailing on bed bugs: They actually live more in wood than anything else as my old apartment I lived in had them... they came down from the third floor. They cram themselves into any corner of wood and borrow their families in it.. So watch out for the wood bed frames especially. I took a frame apart and they were all hiding in the wood.

Mister Fox · 22nd January 2012

I did some reseach on "cold foam mattresses", and it turns out that the very basic format offers:

"Standard Quality"

Density:
Polyurethan: 30 kg/cbm (per cubic meter)
Latex: 70 kg/cbm (per cubic meter)

With a flow resistance of about 5 kPa

So... we get somewhat similar results as with rockwool at 6 kPa flow resistance and a similar density of 35kg/cbm

Let's see how it performs with PAC:
Porous Absorber Calculator - Results

As you can see, a GOBO "design" leaned to the wall consisting of 10cm + 4cm rockwool with 6kPa compared to a 14cm thick IKEA mattress with 5kPa performs only "slightly" better than what a standard cold foam mattress has to offer.

Now here's the deal:
Let's assume the flow resistance sticks to 5kPa - IKEA offers on their page further detail regarding the density of the material. You have options of 25kg/cbm (innerspring) 35kg/cbm (cold foam) up to 50kg/cbm (memory foam), some of them with layered systems. Prices differ greatly of course. With a calculator that also offers density settings and sizes of the absorber, I'm sure we get even better results.

But... now we have a small lead, no?
Suddenly the idea doesn't sound as crazy anymore and I know realise why my "radio host/mattress" experiment was effective back in the day.

Source regarding foam, density and flow resistance (in German)
Schaumstofflexikon

gravyface · 23rd January 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mister Fox

I did some reseach on "cold foam mattresses", and it turns out that the very basic format offers:

"Standard Quality"

Density:
Polyurethan: 30 kg/cbm (per cubic meter)
Latex: 70 kg/cbm (per cubic meter)

With a flow resistance of about 5 kPa

So... we get somewhat similar results as with rockwool at 6 kPa flow resistance and a similar density of 35kg/cbm

Let's see how it performs with PAC:
Porous Absorber Calculator - Results

As you can see, a GOBO "design" leaned to the wall consisting of 10cm + 4cm rockwool with 6kPa compared to a 14cm thick IKEA mattress with 5kPa performs only "slightly" better than what a standard cold foam mattress has to offer.

Now here's the deal:
Let's assume the flow resistance sticks to 5kPa - IKEA offers on their page further detail regarding the density of the material. You have options of 25kg/cbm (innerspring) 35kg/cbm (cold foam) up to 50kg/cbm (memory foam), some of them with layered systems. Prices differ greatly of course. With a calculator that also offers density settings and sizes of the absorber, I'm sure we get even better results.

But... now we have a small lead, no?
Suddenly the idea doesn't sound as crazy anymore and I know realise why my "radio host/mattress" experiment was effective back in the day.

Source regarding foam, density and flow resistance (in German)
Schaumstofflexikon

Very interesting. Would like to hear some of the acoustic experts chime in on this; I always thought memory foam would be a good candidate to at least test with.

Mister Fox · 23rd January 2012

So do I. I don't think I'll be capable of proper testing and posting results (cables not long enough). I just go by ear most of the time and having that old mattress in my recording "section", there is less reflection already.

I'll see how strong this will be as soon as there are more absorbers and 2 clouds in there.

5th September 2009	#1
Bootis Gear interested Joined: Feb 2008 Location: Kansas City Posts: 3 Thread Starter	What to do with an old mattress? Hello, I'm in a band that plays in my friend's basement. Its a finished basement to a degree, the playing space is square, about 18'x24', 3 concrete walls, and one 24' wall of thin drywall, concrete floor with thin carpet, finished but thin ceiling, with a big hollow aluminum heat vent running across it. No furniture down there, just gear. So it really sounds horrible. We are getting the supplies together to build about a dozen panels to put up around the room, but that's probably a few weeks away, and I can't take another practice down there the way it is now. So my roommate donated a big, heavy futon mattress. Whats the best place to hang that mattress to maximize it's potential to make the room sound a little better? Also, the drums are set up in front of the drywall, would they be better in front of a concrete wall or does it not really matter? Thanks for any advice

6th September 2009	#2
Ethan Winer Gear Guru Joined: Oct 2002 Location: New Milford, CT, USA Posts: 12,333	The only thing that mattress is good for is entertaining lady friends. Maybe put it behind the drums standing upright? --Ethan __________________ Ethan's audio book is now available!

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5th August 2010	#4
SAC Registered User Joined: Dec 2009 Posts: 2,622	What to do with an old mattress? Rent it out as housing for bedbugs and dust mites.

5th August 2010	#5
amishsixstringe Lives for gear Joined: Mar 2007 Location: Athens, Ohio Posts: 1,263	I just burned 2 of them on a bon fire last weekend! Neil

5th August 2010	#8
heidi Gear interested Joined: Jun 2010 Location: Vienna / Austria Posts: 1	To add something on topic: I have three practise room for rent. This is in an office building with very thin plaster walls. When I set the rooms up, I had to decide how to deaden the sound so that practising in one room would not interfere with practising in the others. I had an expert in, and he told me, I had to plaster all the rooms with rockwool about 20 cm thick to get any effect. Just for doing the measuring he asket 1800 € ( about 2000 Dollar I´d estimate). I finally decided on a cheaper version and plastered the walls with matresses. The cost nothing and I fixed them with a stapler, covering with fabric. Now I´m even mixing next to the practise rooms. I´d never have thought this would work out but it did. Now regarding your problem with the practise room sounding awful, I´d say if you put a matress on the wall behind the drums or even anywhrer it will help the sound. My experience is that it is important to have walls behind the drumset treated because it takes the sharpest twinges out of the cymbals. I believe the drywall is the better place for the drums. I have two rooms with drums backed on drywalls and on where the drums are in the outside corner with concrete walls. It´s this one room that is generally used less, sound in the other rooms seems to be better. It also might help a little if you have some heavy curtains or a carpet on the walls or some of these small cartons that eggs are sold in. If there is space (I can´t get the hang of these feet/inch measurements) put in a sofa or some lounge chair, or some other furniture.

19th January 2012	#9
Mister Fox Gear maniac Joined: Jul 2011 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 157	Sorry to dig out this old thread, but hey... I'm a GS member, so less new threads, up with the old ones. Aside from "entertaining lady friends" and cultivating bedbugs, I still have a 140x200cm (55"x78") and about 15cm thick (6") thick Ikea mattress in my studio (which is basically a reconstucted and optimized 28sqm living room as part of a 44sqm apartement). I mean, I need to sleep on something if I don't have a couch with bed-mode in there... er... yet (I have comfy chairs for the time being, but they're not good for sleeping). I was thinking of building a rig in my 10qm recording environment that is directly the opposite of my studio window. The ceiling and corners are planned to utilize proper broadband absorbtion with DIY rockwool panels. In other words, I'd clamp the mattress in a vertical standing position to the wall to have enough space for recording and acting as additional broadband absorber. And IKEA stuff can be abused for studio stuff quite well, so why should this not work? Years ago I alienated a 90x200cm (35,4"x78") matresses for "reducing" a large and untreated room (setup behind the host's position) for a hobby radio broadcast and it worked quite well. It was basically a poor-man's GOBO. So... any reasons against that "mattress + wall mount = Broadband Absorber" idea? Again, it would provide a sleeping accommodation. And due to the rig, the room will be tidied up and gets another broadband absorption/bass trap. It would just be nice to know the absorption coefficients.

21st January 2012	#11
Mister Fox Gear maniac Joined: Jul 2011 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 157	A possibility indeed. But isn't it possible to get a somewhat guestimation due to the size of the mattress and maybe even if you know what material is (inside)?

22nd January 2012	#12
IanMichaelFafard Gear interested Joined: Jan 2012 Posts: 9 1 Review written	If it were a box spring then you could at least use it as a frame to stuff with some 4 -6 lb\cubic foot mineral wool or OC, but a mattress I would just throw out. I've though of strange things like that in the past and part of us wants to believe we can save tons of money and turn it into something great but there is not much functionality to a mattress. Derailing on bed bugs: They actually live more in wood than anything else as my old apartment I lived in had them... they came down from the third floor. They cram themselves into any corner of wood and borrow their families in it.. So watch out for the wood bed frames especially. I took a frame apart and they were all hiding in the wood.

23rd January 2012	#15
Mister Fox Gear maniac Joined: Jul 2011 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 157	So do I. I don't think I'll be capable of proper testing and posting results (cables not long enough). I just go by ear most of the time and having that old mattress in my recording "section", there is less reflection already. I'll see how strong this will be as soon as there are more absorbers and 2 clouds in there.