Questions on treating a nightmare room that's too small... (pics)

[The Beatsmith]

Hi, hope this thread isn't too long and boring

I am working out of a very small room with great gear, but no acoustical treatment. Time to get some. I know the room is too small for my gear, but i cannot find anywhere else in the area. What with the way the economy is looking, i'm thinking i might have to be here a while. So i'm having to make do with a bad room. Any traps etc i buy i can always move to a new place.

Anyway, i have a load of questions. And some pics (they are a little old, is more gear in there now...)... more pics here: pictures

1) How important is symmetry on the rear wall? Here's a picture of the rear wall.



Now normally you'd have a bass trap/broadband absorber across each back corner. What do you think i should do here? It's my friends record collection and he constantly needs access to all the records. Well, even if he doesn't use them, it's his room and i doubt he'll want to lose access to stuff, as the sofa will cut off access to the lower left parts. Is this a disaster? Would you just put one trap on the left hand side where it's possible, or...?

Perhaps i could persuade him to put it in the middle of the back wall if it would really help. I wonder if that vinyl helps at all?

2) Do you think i would gain from placing a thin 2 inch 2 x 4foot basstrap/readybag above the vocal position where the reflexion filter is mounted? I work with some tall vocallists, mind you!

3) What to do about the window on the left, and the glass on the right @ the first reflection points? Here's a picture:



4) The monitor position is a bit of a nightmare. The reason for this is because it's not really my 'space', it's the office for the record label, which is having to be used as the studio as we can't find anywhere else, especially not anywhere that's 'economically viable'. So my friend who runs the record label allowed me to move some of my gear into there (i just put in the minimum to mix... no drums, amps, synths etc... since this picture i've put NS10's on top of the Adams S3A's... and also have a Yamaha Motif (to left of mix position) and a few other things in there.

I was thinking of getting rid of the printer stuff on the right of the table, and moving the big table so it's bang in the middle of the room. Then trying to fit in a bass trap behind each of them. Also, the Adams will be on Auralex MoPads, pointing slightly downwards, as are the NS10's above them.

It's pretty crowded in there as there's nearly always at least 2 people in this little space - me, my friend the manager/record label guy, and then often a vocalist who i'm working with. And it's not my space so i don't want to be too bossy

Please bear in mind that i can't afford to go out and spend thousands on treatment... it'll have to be done in stages. I was thinking of going out and buying 4x4inch GIK traps as they are available in the UK now (although they are way more expensive than they are in the USA). I was going to start treating the room by putting one in each corner but then was worried about the lack of symmetry on the back wall. I also don't think there's room for 6 inchers, at the front behind the speakers at least.

Anyway... i just thought i'd post up asking for some advice... i hope someone can help me out. Edit: I just called up my buddy and asked him for the dimensions of the room... they are... roughly 232cm wide x 468cm long x 220cm high... pretty small! Finally, the room is made from brick, with plaster on the walls. In between the brick and the plaster (plasterboard? plaster? i don't know the difference!) is a load of 'standard insulation' rockwool. The floors have carpet tiles on top of cement/concrete.

Thanks

[The Beatsmith]

Also... would starting with just 2 x 4inch bass traps be a waste of time in this room? It's £135 vs £270 (delivered) for the 2 vs 4 options... and after christmas and stuff.... i'd rather not be spending all that in one go.

Thanks again guys

Edd

[Sen]

Don't worry too much about simmetry passed the listening position.
If the money is not an issue, just buy some absorbers on stands/castors so you can move them around easily and out of the way if they're blocking access to stuff.
I personally could never justify buying readily made traps/absorbers when you can make them yourself for a lot less with minimal skills.
Hang some clouds above your listening position.
Iwouls just cover your side reflectyion points (glass board and the window) with some heavy curtains...you could actually use them for most of the mid and high freq. treatment in the room.
Looks like your biggest issue will be bass traps, coz of the lack of space to put them in.
I see agood spot for a corner trap on top of those shelves, extending all the way to the left corner, and then one standing upright in the corner (replacing the cardboard boxes).
The plasterboard along with the

a load of 'standard insulation' rockwool

will act as a panel absorber for you too.

[elz]

hey edd,

cant really help you on the acoustic side, im pretty much in the same boat as you so i will keep a close eye on this thread for my own benefits.

one thing i have noticed in your room that ive always been told as a no-no is your light fitting. flourescents tend to interfere with audio signals. i think its something to do with the choke/ballast thats installed inside them. Dimmer switches can give the same effect apparently.

cheers

ell.

[Glenn Kuras]

Please bear in mind that i can't afford to go out and spend thousands on treatment... it'll have to be done in stages. I was thinking of going out and buying 4x4inch GIK traps as they are available in the UK now (although they are way more expensive than they are in the USA).

Really?? The 244 is about 7 pounds more then the US and shipping is actually less. I believe within the UK it is around 15 pounds per box. Also keep in mind that we are giving 5% off all orders from the Europe right now.

[The Beatsmith]

Hi guys, I'm on my iPhone so can't reply properly, but um Glenn... I think you realize that you can't compare pounds and dollars like that

The pound was worth double what the dollar was, it isn't anymore but it's hardly a 1:1 comparison... I'll post up the real differences later when I'm at a computer.

Thanks for all your replies,

Edd

[elz]

us dollar gik 244............ $129.98 = £88.82

british pound gik 244...... £119.60 = $190

difference is $60 or £31

[Glenn Kuras]

Oh yea, I was not counting in VAT. That price is with the VAT which is not much I can do about that. Also keep in mind that shipping is MUCH less then before. Like around $100 per box less.

difference is $60 or £31

Per box of 2.

GIK 244 - $64.99 vs 52 pounds ($76.44) 7.48 pounds more, but yes like I said that is without VAT.
GIK 242 - $54.99 vs 42 pounds ($61.74) Something like 5 pounds?? 2 pints at a cheap pub.
GIK Monster - $119.00 vs 82 pounds ($120.00) Almost the same price.


Glenn

[The Beatsmith]

Right, thanks glenn. Of course, this wouldn't have quite been true a month ago before the change in pound/dollar etc

any advice on the room?

Cheers

[Glenn Kuras]

I think you have gotten some pretty good advise so far but,

3) What to do about the window on the left, and the glass on the right @ the first reflection points? Here's a picture:

I would just mount the panel in front of the window.

For your back wall, maybe see if you can just set panels on the floor in front of that record rack.

Right, thanks glenn. Of course, this wouldn't have quite been true a month ago before the change in pound/dollar etc

Right and we looked at that also, but really want it comes down to is the cost of making the product over there. All and all thought it comes down to the shipping and import taxes. That truly is the savings

Glenn

[The Beatsmith]

Thanks man. To start, would it be best to get 2 x 244 and put them behind the monitors, and:

a) another couple of 244, against the back wall somewhere?
or
b) 3 x 242 (one pack), covering 1st reflection points either side and maybe above the monitoring position... or maybe above the spot where the vox are recorded?

i'll grab the other option when I can afford to...

thanks

[The Beatsmith]

Originally Posted by elz

hey edd,

cant really help you on the acoustic side, im pretty much in the same boat as you so i will keep a close eye on this thread for my own benefits.

one thing i have noticed in your room that ive always been told as a no-no is your light fitting. flourescents tend to interfere with audio signals. i think its something to do with the choke/ballast thats installed inside them. Dimmer switches can give the same effect apparently.

cheers

ell.

thanks man, I've noticed some weirdness with it too, plus it hums. now we have an extra lights in there and use them when recording. that one hardly ever goes on

cheers

[Glenn Kuras]

a) another couple of 244, against the back wall somewhere?
or
b) 3 x 242 (one pack), covering 1st reflection points either side and maybe above the monitoring position... or maybe above the spot where the vox are recorded?

If you are starting with 2 244s and adding more, then go with the 242s to put in the early reflection points. Then down the road get some more of the 244s to put on the back wall.

Just to add (edit)

Thanks man. To start, would it be best to get 2 x 244 and put them behind the monitors, and:

You want to straddle the front corners if possible.


Glenn

[Ludwig]

Glenn I am psyched about GIK in Bradford, I live just round the road so not only do I not have to pay shipping but I dont have to pay postage either cos I can go pick up!

Woohoo cannot wait for the new year. I was gutted when I got my shipping quote from the US originally. e.

[Glenn Kuras]

It has been a lot of hard work over the last few months, so glad to hear your psyched.


Glenn

[johndykstra]

I'd start by cleaning up a bit, moving the record shelf so it's centered (it doesn't look that full to me, loosing a bit in the lower left should be ok...just keep the crap records down there...we all have them), and build bass traps "encasing" it. Two more large front corner traps, a hanging 2" trap that can cover the window while mixing and a permenent one on the opposite wall. Cloud over the mix position, and corner traps on the wall ceiling junctions.

Nice gear by the way