Home control room too dead? How to fix it? w/ pics

[magibatalla]

Hi there!

I'm quite happy with my latest mixes and they translate pretty well on the outside world, but I'm noticing they tend to be brighter than most of other comercial productions, even when I compare them in my own studio. I have my reference records but when I come back to them after a couple of hours I notice my stuff sounds brighter, probably because that's how I'd like to hear music. But my room just doesn't sound like that.

I switched my converters from Mackie Onyx to Prism Sound Orpheus and I think I'm probably boosting high frequencies because I had the habit to when I worked with the Mackie (to recover that content I was losing due to conversion, not necessary with my new Orpheus). Trying to fix that on my own, using my ears and getting away from habits.

On the other side, I upgraded my room's treatment building some custom broadband absorbers, rebuilding my furniture and puting my monitors on concrete stands I noticed a tighter bottom-end in mixing position because of that, but maybe the absorbers are sucking too much top-end.

I've thought of trying to recover high frequency reflections (placing thin wood frames over my front absorber, behind my monitors) or reducing low frequencies even more (with other Auralex LENRDs as the ones I already have). Would it be better to do both things? Or should I just try to know my room better and get used to it? That would be cheaper at least!

I'm attaching before/after pictures for you to figure out the situation. The vertical LENRDs are still behind my new custom made corner absorbers, which are 17cm thick. The one behind the monitors is 12cm thick.

What should I do? Any opinion? Thanx in advance!

[Glenn Kuras]

On the other side, I upgraded my room's treatment building some custom broadband absorbers, rebuilding my furniture and puting my monitors on concrete stands I noticed a tighter bottom-end in mixing position because of that, but maybe the absorbers are sucking too much top-end.

That is good you did that, but can you give a little more info?

1)Room dimensions
2)What other treatment do you have on side walls and ceiling
3)What is on the back wall?
4)More pictures of the room would REALLY help also.

I've thought of trying to recover high frequency reflections (placing thin wood frames over my front absorber, behind my monitors) or reducing low frequencies even more (with other Auralex LENRDs as the ones I already have). Would it be better to do both things? Or should I just try to know my room better and get used to it? That would be cheaper at least!

You don't want to cover panels that are used for higher frequencies with any kind of wood. All that will do is reflect what the panels where absorbing. It would be the same as just taking down the panel and having a flat wall.

I would like to know more about the room but if it is big enough you might want to think about some diffusors in the room.

Glenn

[magibatalla]

Thanx for your input, Glenn, really appreciated.

My room is not big at all. Ceiling is 2,45m tall. Almost square shape (too bad, I know). Front wall is 2,85m. Side walls 2,60. Egg crates pretend to do something to treat the ceiling (I know, I know , don't flame me for that, I didn't know what I was doing when I did that).

You can see (old picture) a window on the right wall, it's in the middle of the wall. I removed that table on the right side, now my rack is there (about 65cm tall). There's a book shelf on the back/right corner. The picture is taken just where the entrance door is (back/left corner).

Left wall appears in the "new" picture. You can see a CD shelf and cabling hangers there. I placed 4cm foam where direct reflexions are.

Almost no treatment for the back wall (I'd run out of space), two bass traps where the wall meets the ceiling only, just as in front wall. I have a glass (90cmx60cm) in that back wall to see what's happening in the vocal booth. From what I've read in other threads, difusion is not in order in a room like mine. Tell me if I'm wrong.

Finally, a thick carpet on the floor.

I have no flutter issues. I do notice (when using a signal generator) some frequencies nulling when I move my head and a clear bass build-up when moving closer to the back wall (not at mixing position).

After all, the room doesn't sound bad at all, considering its shape and size. I've managed to get pretty good mixes there lately. Just trying to optimize it further if possible.

Hope it helps, I will try to take more pics. Thanx in advance.

[magibatalla]

I took a picture of the missing corners. You can see more 4cm foam attached to the door. When closed, it helps avoiding natural reverb from the corridor to get into the room.

[Glenn Kuras]

Egg crates pretend to do something to treat the ceiling (I know, I know , don't flame me for that, I didn't know what I was doing when I did that).

YOU HAVE BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN FLAMED!!!!!!!!!!

I think the problem is you have way to much high frequency absorption without much bass trapping. I would remove those FREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKIN egg HOLDERS and put 3 panels in the early reflection points on the ceiling (cover from where you sit to the monitors). I would make those panels 4" thick and space them off the ceiling 4". Next I would build or buy 2 or 3 panels that are 6" thick, put them on stands and put them on that back wall. from there I would start to remove any thin stuff you have on the walls (besides the early reflection areas) to liven up the room.

Oh one other thing. Put 4" panels behind each monitor and remove the thin stuff on the front wall.

Glenn

[magibatalla]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

YOU HAVE BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN FLAMED!!!!!!!!!!

I knew this would happen <<---- me in flames

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

I think the problem is you have way to much high frequency absorption without much bass trapping.

That's what I suspected.

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

I would remove those FREAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKIN egg HOLDERS.

I think they look nice, haha, unprofessional nice but probably nicer than the glue remaining on the ceiling if I remove them...

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

put 3 panels in the early reflection points on the ceiling (cover from where you sit to the monitors). I would make those panels 4" thick and space them off the ceiling 4". Next I would build or buy 2 or 3 panels that are 6" thick, put them on stands and put them on that back wall. from there I would start to remove any thin stuff you have on the walls (besides the early reflection areas) to liven up the room. Oh one other thing. Put 4" panels behind each monitor and remove the thin stuff on the front wall.

Glenn

I take note of all that and will start following your suggestions. Lots of work so I will have to take it easy, but at least I know what I can fix.

Thank you, man, you've been REALLY kind and helpful!

[Audiop]

Yea, way to much thin absorbers that tilt the room sound. You need way mor low frequency absorbtion and you need some big objects in that room to help with diffusion. A sofa against the back wall, bassabsorbers in all corners.

Is it fabric or fake leather on the absorbers behind the speakers? Forgive me for such a stupid question but I can't see what it is. :-)

Oh, you need some serious absorbers on the first reflection points on the side walls. Thin foam is useless there. Agre with Glenn, you can have the part of the wall behind your monitors untreated but make sure to have abosrbers behind the speakers where you'll see the "mirror" of the speakers.


/Peter

[Glenn Kuras]

I take note of all that and will start following your suggestions. Lots of work so I will have to take it easy, but at least I know what I can fix.

Thank you, man, you've been REALLY kind and helpful!

Too bad we don't have a plant in Spain. You could have this fixed in about 2 days, with zero effort.

I think they look nice, haha, unprofessional nice but probably nicer than the glue remaining on the ceiling if I remove them...

I really think that the egg carts are causing some of (if not most) of the problems. If nothing else take down the one behind where you sit.


Glenn

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by Audiop

Yea, way to much thin absorbers that tilt the room sound. You need way mor low frequency absorbtion and you need some big objects in that room to help with diffusion. A sofa against the back wall, bassabsorbers in all corners.

Is it fabric or fake leather on the absorbers behind the speakers? Forgive me for such a stupid question but I can't see what it is. :-)

Oh, you need some serious absorbers on the first reflection points on the side walls. Thin foam is useless there. Agre with Glenn, you can have the part of the wall behind your monitors untreated but make sure to have abosrbers behind the speakers where you'll see the "mirror" of the speakers.


/Peter

Hey Peter,

Very well said, but you might want to take a read here GIK Acoustics presents "How Diffusion Works!"
What you are talking about is changing reflections (different from true diffusion) which can be ok if done right. But it can also work against you due to it being unpredictable in the room. When you put your mix desk in a room it does change reflections but 9 times out of 10 in a bad way (comb filtering coming off the desk).

Needless to say, great post.

[magibatalla]

Originally Posted by Audiop

Is it fabric or fake leather on the absorbers behind the speakers? Forgive me for such a stupid question but I can't see what it is. :-)
Oh, you need some serious absorbers on the first reflection points on the side walls. Thin foam is useless there. Agre with Glenn, you can have the part of the wall behind your monitors untreated but make sure to have abosrbers behind the speakers where you'll see the "mirror" of the speakers.
/Peter

Thank you for your contribution, Peter.
It's fabric covering the absorbers. It's quite thin and due to the flash in my camera you can see the plastic bags covering the rockwool inside.
It would be quite a mess changing the configuration of my front wall absorber, I'd have to rebuild it from scratch. Worth it?

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

I really think that the egg carts are causing some of (if not most) of the problems. If nothing else take down the one behind where you sit.

Really? How? Which one you mean to take down?