Photo journal of remodel: polys, clouds, & traps (was: a work in progress)

[johndykstra]

This thread is morphing more into a photo diary of a somewhat "green" studio remodel. There is alot of repurposing of material going on here. To date, all acoustic material has cost me in the neighborhood of $900 dollars, but I got some incredible deals if you read on. There's alot of info here for the diy crowd looking to do the "ultimate rehersal room/studio in a basement", as well as the nervous "cold footed" trigger finger of someone (me) learning as they go.

Table of contents:

"as it was" sketch,jpeg (post #5)

This link: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/work-...k-brutial.html is an example of recordings done in the "before" room. Post #22 contains the "as good as I can get it" with what I've got mixes.

"after" sketch,jpeg (post #6)

This is where you will eventuall find songs recorded in the "after" room..probably next year some time. Stay tuned.

history of where materials came from (post #18)

cloud construction (post #14-16, 21)

bass trap construction (post #19-20)

poly diffusion constuction (post #42-45)

Control room (post #64-77)


<<<<<JPEG FILES ARE POSTED A COUPLE OF POSTS DOWN, FOR THOSE WHO DON"T YET HAVE SKETCHUP>>>>>

It should be noted, that for those looking to learn about acoustics, that the acoustics chat room is a good place to seek advice. There's generally a specific topic being discussed, so be patient and ask for direction to a thread containing specific information. Gather what you can from existing threads, and don't be suprised when someone suggests you purchase "build it like the pros", "master handbook of acoustics", or other terrific text.

I was very fortunate to catch a very intelligent person (avare) on a generious day. He has guided me from the start of this project. Having someone with a firm grasp of physics and math is essential to making a SPECIFIC PLAN to your situation. I firmly believe that with a solid grasp of blanketed fundamentals, and lacking knowledge of physics and math, you'll be able to get a room to about 50-60% of it's potential. Understanding the "how and why (physics)" can allow you to tap that last 50-40%, and possibly spend even less money than you would have, had you just applied blanketed reasoning. Read the books, some chapters twice, and if you can't grasp the verbage, then hire someone who can...or get lucky like I did.

[Jaques Beraques]

Please render some pics and post them so everyone can see them without a problem.

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by Jaques Beraques

Please render some pics and post them so everyone can see them without a problem.

This first post contains the room as it stands today. All wall panels are 2" thick 703. All bass traps are Lenrd style Auralex style stuff...some 18"...some 8". the dropped portions of the ceiling are framed and covered the same as the walls...which is 2x4 framed, rockwool stuffed, layer of 1/2" mdf (there was a retail warehouse in our area that becaues of fire code restrictions, had to replace their mdf shelving with steel wire shelves, so water from the sprinklers could go through. They were tossing out all of the mdf from their shelves. FREE) and a layer of 1/2" drywall. There is currently no ceiling treatment.

[johndykstra]

Here is the idea..the brain child of Andre (avare+), Spencer (spencerc), and I.

All bass traps have been replaced with 4" of rockwool, with a 3" air gap frame.

Previous bass traps usage are to be decided

Wall panels: originally had a 1/8" maple ply back to them (more on this ply in a moment) I will remove the backs, secure the 703 with fabric, and mount them with spacers, 1" from wall surface.

Poly diffusors: are being created with the 1/8" ply from the wall panels, and an mdf skeleton...stuffed with rockwool. Current poly surface area of total room = 5%

Ceiling: the higher portions of the ceiling are shown framed with 2x4's. These areas are to be filled with 2.5" of rockwool, with a 1" air gap.

The red circle displays where drums and most things will be tracked.

The blue circle displays an idea of a more open sounding area to track electric guitar and maybe some acoustic stuff

Any comments are welcome, especially before I start the rennovation!

{edit} the support column of the room will be covered in 1" foam "wedgies"

[spencerc]

I think the room is looking great. +1 for Poly Fusiors that are implemented correctly!

Spencer

[johndykstra]

Based on the current drawing, my drum cloud is a 2x4" frame, with one sheet of rockwool in between each "rib" of the skeleton. I'd like to be able to use less internal bracing, but am wondering about sag. Again rockwool is 6lb. density and 2.5" thick. Anyone have any ideas as to how many continuous sheets I can have without support? The other cloud above the door has strips approx. 2' x 7'...basically two sheets in series the long way, I figure that should be good. Maybe the same structure over the drums as well?

Oh, the fabric covering is likely to de burlap, but I have not ruled out muslin.

On a side note, if each sheet is individually supported, do you guys think I can get by with a jersey t-shirt type material without sag?

Thanks,

John

[johndykstra]

New version with the panels staggered, and better spaced. Also rendered some auralex foam on the beam. It will be on all four sides in reality, but it's a pain in the arse to draw.

[spencerc]

Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai

New version with the panels staggered, and better spaced. Also rendered some auralex foam on the beam. It will be on all four sides in reality, but it's a pain in the arse to draw.

Why not just make the Foam a component/group...then you can copy and paste it anywhere you want.

As for the Rockwool ...it will definitely sag. I would use some sort of brace in the middle of each piece. It's looking great though!. Props to you on learning sketchup so quickly!

-Spencer

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by spencerc

As for the Rockwool ...it will definitely sag. I would use some sort of brace in the middle of each piece. It's looking great though!. Props to you on learning sketchup so quickly!

-Spencer

I figured as much. I went to Joann Fabrics yesterday a bought the fabric for the clouds. 108" x 6 yards for $36! (40% off sale). It's a cotton material with a similar "stretch factor" to a dress shirt, but just as breathable as muslin. Deep red color. Should look cool next to my burnt orange bass traps.

Construction starts this weekend, I'll post some pics.

[spencerc]

Awesome! Looking forward to it!

[johndykstra]

A photo journal of my Sunday afternoon. (I DVR'd the Packer game)

Photo descriptions:

1. Material measures 108" across, and the cloud portion is to be 103"...so we wanted to make sure we were centered for a good start. You can see in the left wall corner, the glue left over from removing the foam style bass traps.

2. I hate math

3. First course of framing, we have to keep the cloud about a 1/4" away from the wall because of the window frame. This window frame is just finished...see #4. We determined that using 1x4's instead of 2x4's in the longer dimension of the cloud would allow me to keep the edge of the cloud from hanging into the next window sill. We kept 2x4's in the other dimension so that it would fill out the ceiling without having to cut insulation. There is a complete frame around each sheet of rockwool. The frames are roughly an 1/8" smaller in both dimensions than the insulation, in order to keep them snuggly in place.

4. The best tool we've ever bought! This is Chad by the way. "Hi Chad". In the distance you can see one of the newly constructed bass traps. (And the foam residue from the old ones.) I will make a diary of my bass trap construction when I build the last one. You can also see what the window wells have looked like before they are trimmed out. We used laminate flooring remnents, and salvaged interior window trim from a dumpster.

[johndykstra]

1. This is Elvis.

2. First course of fabric is stretched, cavities are filled with 2.5" rockwool, 6lb. It should be noted, that at times there was three people pulling the fabric in different directions in order to get it as tight as we could. Next to the window you can see that I attempted to do some touch up paint work earlier, only to find that Chad has about 5 different shades of cream paint....This is not the right shade.

3. A shot of the uncovered rock wool. There's an approx. 1" gap between the ceiling and the insulation. You can see on the board closest to you that the ceiling was not true, so we had to do some scribing with a jigsaw to get the framing to lay as flat as possible on the ceiling.

[johndykstra]

1. Applying trim. All finish wood is reclaimed from old acoustic treatments.

2. A shot of the outside edge of the cloud that faces the room.

3. And done. Gives a very cool vibe in the room. Kinda feels like a mens elk club or something, which isn't that far of a stretch really. The difference in sound is immediately appreciateable. Even without the wall panels or bass trap, when talking or clapping in this corner, the focus and clarity are vastly improved.

Tuesday night, we build another cloud, re-touch up some paint, build a 6' tall bass trap, and start hanging the wall panels back up.

[johndykstra]

In this jpeg, I've highlighted where the drums will be tracked from with a red circle.

I'm trying to wrap my head around diffusion. From what I do know, I'm wondering if the polys that I've highlighted in blue should be converted to QRDs. The straight shot back to the drums may provide a better time domain component? I don't know. If this is an appropriate change, how deep should the largest wells be? I want to get a feel for how much of my ply it would chew up.

[johndykstra]

So it's occured to me, that this is a pretty "green" remodel, as I am repurposing alot of things, I thought I'd show where they came from.

1. This is a gobo still intact from the original lot I bought a couple years ago. There was originally 6 of these gobos, purchased from a studio that was tanking. I can't remember for sure, but I believe each gobo cost me $50ish? Because my room is small, I knew I wouldn't have a need for 6 gobos, but the panels would make great wall absorbers. This one that still stands is actually modified to accomodate my short ceilings.

2. Here is a detail of the front of the wall panels. The same strip that's on the front securing the carpet is on the back securing the plywood. The strips from the back are what you see as the trim on the clouds, and the stands from the gobos are used for the larger trim.

3. This is a stack of wall panels, and a bass trap...waiting to be rehung in their new homes. Again, the ply has been removed from the back and replaced with a drop cloth fabric. These will be spaced 1" and screwed to the walls.

4. buried in the mess there somewhere, you can see the ply that is going to be used for the poly diffusors.

[johndykstra]

A brief explanation of the poor documentation: I had built 5 2' x 4' bass traps some time ago. I had thought that I had enough finish fabric to make 2 more 4' bass traps. As I will soon find out, there's only enough for 1.

1. - A finished frame, for my new 2' by 6.5' bass trap. This is going to go ceiling to floor in the drum corner. In an effort to conserve wood, you can see my hack job of creating stock long enough to get the height. Frame measures 3" deep by the way. (again, wood is taken from the frames of the gobos)

2. - Drop cloth stretched and stapled to the frame

3. - back side of the frame.

4. - (this is where I realize that I don't have enough finish fabric to make the taller trap, and my photo documentation falls apart in the scramble.) We cut the frame down to build another 4' tall trap, as I'm not real keen on the breathability of this fabric anyway, I don't want to buy more.

Were I not totally ticked off about my fabric mis calculation, this is where there'd be photos highlighting:

1. I laid the finish fabric good side down on a table.

2. I stacked two sheets of 2" rockwool in the center of the fabric.

3. I stacked the wooden frame on top of the rockwool, with the drop cloth fabric touching the insulation. (Thus allowing me a secure package of insulation, with a 3" frame seperating the trap from the wall), and a breathable pathway from face to back.

4. And finally wrapping the finish fabric around the frame and stapling.

...We will use a 2' tall chunk of each of the 18" foam style bass traps sitting directly underneath each of the 4' tall "real" bass traps, giving us 6' of corner coverage in the corners. Question. Will the triangle "chunk" style trap butted up to the bottom of the "straddle" style trap hinder or enhance the bass resonse in any way?

[johndykstra]

These are some shots of the finished traps in place. The edges are clean enough, for me at least, and it's considerable cheaper than a 703 trap. When wrapping the finsh fabric around the insulation and frame, it's very important to see to it that there aren't any loose chunks of rockwool that will make your edges look lumpy.

I often hear people on this forum saying they can't find 703 or rockwool. I couldn't either when I was looking at Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, etc.... You have to find an actual insulation dealer, the type that contractors use. For me, it's these folks: Welcome To Allied Insulation

I hung the traps with essentialy 4 eye hooks and two very long zip ties. Two eyehooks on the walls, and two on the back of the panel. Loosely secure the two eye hooks on each side with the zip ties, and from the bottom of the trap, reach behind and grab the two tails of the zip ties. Yank them tight evenly, until the desired height is achieved.

The fabric for these traps was found in the upholestry portion of a fabric store. It's a heavier fabric than say muslin, or burlap...both often recommended for bass traps. While my fabric may not be as breathable as the other two, (it does allow you to "breathe" through it, but there is a restriction), I believe it to have a bit more structure. When building a trap without an external frame around the insulation, I'm not sure how well rockwool would take to being supported by say, muslin. 703 would probably be a different story. And again, the drop cloth fabric holding it in from the rear is extremely breathable. There's been alot of talk regarding "limp mass membranes" lately, and while some suggest that what I have here isn't one, some have hinted that it will behave slightly in this manor. Being the type of person to believe the guy who gives me less work to do and less money to spend, I'll be content with believing that my traps do act somewhat as a limp mass, and just go with the "flow" haha.

Total cost for 6 bass traps:

insulation: $80
finish fabric: $120
frame fabric: $30
wood: repurposed

And I got the Auralex style traps from these folks:
Foam N' More And Upholstery, Michigan USA

I ordered 16 linear feet of the 8" corner traps & 16 linear feet of the 18" corner traps. I don't remember the price, but it wasn't more than a couple hundred bucks.

I'm not entirely dissatisfied with the product...it is what it is. Their prices make Auralex look like thieves, and they spec out the same. It should be noted, that I was the first, and last customer to order the 18" corner bass traps, in fact, they aren't even on the site anymore. They were so compressed in shipping the first time around, that they never bounced back. They had to re-ship me the order (uncompressed) on their dime.

[johndykstra]

1. Frame in place. (door trim will need to be replaced)

2. Ribs are in. The ridge you see running down the center of the existing ceiling is an enclosure aroundwater supply lines. Our original intention was to eventually encase this MDF with a laminate hard wood. Now that we are building a cloud, this won't be necessary.

3. And insulation. Air gap turns out to be 3" on this cloud.

4. And done. (Both clouds, the further one is the newer one.)

Total cost for approx 115 sq. ft. of both clouds:

Insulation: $120
Fabric: $40
Wood: $50
Trim repurposed

[johndykstra]

1. Ryan (bass) and Derek (drums) respectively. "DOWN WITH CAPITALISM!" *seriously, they didn't plan or realize just how commie they look here. We may have to switch gears in our song writing.

2. After sifting through 6 different beiges, we've concluded that we don't have anymore of the right color. Turns out to be a good thing actually, as the red ceiling has really darkened the place, we will choose a brighter wall color. I voted a sky blue, but being Chad's house, I'm guessing it will end up as a lighter beige. And the communistic themes continue.

Does anyone have a rcommendation for removing spray adhesive from the wall?

[johndykstra]

These shots highlight an area of rehersal concern. The circle on the ground dictates where our singer locates during rehersal. While the cloud will obviously make an improvement on gain before feedback, the new diffusion behind him is a concern.

I've decided to hang a blanket from the back edge of the ductwork encasement that we will roll down during rehersal to kill some highend.

While tracking I will roll up the blanket and fasten it in the ceiling drop corner. The cotton mass in the corner may actually work at a bit of trapping device as well.

(You can see a bit of real life detail of this area, in the finished bass trap photo... (post #22) it is the same corner.)

[johndykstra]

I've gone through the old posts and bolded out questions I'm not getting a response on. If I've offended the experts in any way I'm sorry. Or if my questions or intentions aren't clear, please tell me the information needed to guide me in the right direction.

It is understood, that with a cube for a control room, and a very low ceiling in the tracking room, that I won't be creating the next Electrical Audio, but I'd like to make the most of what I have. For the most part, I'm interested in using materials I already have, but I'm not opposed to spending some money to get this as right as I can.

[johndykstra]

Here's the plan for the poly diffusors.

My ply wood is just under 2' wide (1' 11 7/8") by 4' tall...1/8" thick

With a finished total width of 1' 8 5/8" and a cord of 2 9/16", the stock should work out just right. I plan to make a prototype before assembly lining the whole project.

Back plate of the polys will be 1/2" mdf, as well as the 3 supports...again mdf is leftover from the inner layer of the studio walls.

After assembling the back plate and "ribs" I will fill the cavities with rock wool, and sculpt it to match the arc of the ribs.

In the mean time, the plywood will be sitting in the washroom with the hot shower blasting, in an effort to steam the wood into submission.

Jpeg is a back view of the structure, with the back plate removed.

[johndykstra]

Man, over 600 hits and I'm still talking to myself.

[johndykstra]

...We will use a 2' tall chunk of each of the 18" foam style bass traps sitting directly underneath each of the 4' tall "real" bass traps, giving us 6' of corner coverage in the corners. Question. Will the triangle "chunk" style trap butted up to the bottom of the "straddle" style trap hinder or enhance the bass resonse in any way? Keeping in mind, that the back of my straddle traps are more absorbant than the fronts.

[Jaques Beraques]

Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai

Man, over 600 hits and I'm still talking to myself.

I´m with you.
I don´t know why nobody is responding.Have you pissed them all of?
Maybe it´s because you seem to know what you are doing pretty well.
Sorry I can´t really help you with your design, but I will try from now on.

[Doublehelix]

...We will use a 2' tall chunk of each of the 18" foam style bass traps sitting directly underneath each of the 4' tall "real" bass traps, giving us 6' of corner coverage in the corners. Question. Will the triangle "chunk" style trap butted up to the bottom of the "straddle" style trap hinder or enhance the bass resonse in any way?

It will help, not hurt, but to be honest, I don't think it is going to help a whole lot in the low bass area since the foam pieces do not really absorb down very low. I have read where other folks have asked the very same question however, and it was generally accepted that it doesn't hurt, and actually adds some benefit, just not down real low.

Does anyone have a rcommendation for removing spray adhesive from the wall?

I have used Goo-Gone in the past, and it does not come off easily, even with Goo-Gone. It takes a lot of elbow grease, and it some cases, some of the paint comes off with all of the glue. That stuff is nasty, I will never use it again. I know several colleagues that are still using foam, and they have switched to Velcro tabs.

I spent HOURS one time removing that stuff from the walls and ceiling from an old studio. Quite a pain in the rear!

I'm wondering if the polys that I've highlighted in blue should be converted to QRDs. The straight shot back to the drums may provide a better time domain component? I don't know. If this is an appropriate change, how deep should the largest wells be?

There is some calculation around, do a Google search, for the depth of the well as they relate to the lowest wavelength that you are looking to diffuse. I cannot comment on the poly vs. QRD debate, but there are posts on this site where this is discussed to death.

No offense man, but you need to do some of the research yourself, which is why you are maybe not getting any responses. Folks have already addressed a lot of your questions already, but you need to go and search for them. Put in some effort and you will find that a lot of your questions are already answered around here and elsewhere (try John L Sayers forum as well).

The monitor stands aren't there yet, but I plan on filling sonotubes with sand for these. Good?

Depending on the stands, the ones that are made to be filled come with plastic bags that you place inside of the stands, then fill the bags with sand. Make sure you are using kiln dried sand for sure! I am not sure how the Sonotubes will work or how they will fit into your stands, but there is no reason why they wouldn't work fine to hold the sand if you can make them fit.

The large pink rolls of insulation aren't in the closet yet, this is just an idea. Thoughts?

They will provide some benefit for sure if the waves can easily penetrate the closet door. If you can hear the bass while standing in the closet with the door closed, then you will get some benefit. If it is worth the effort is another story!

The theory behind bass trapping is that they are converting the bass wave energy into heat energy so that the bass waves do not bounce back at you from reflecting off of the wall. The pink fluffy stuff will have some benefit, no problems there, but I am wondering how much of the waveform will be bouncing back into the room from the closet door.

I have also heard that closets can act as a form of pseudo bass traps on their own, so it is certainly worth a try to stick the pink stuff in there and see if it makes a difference.

My guess is that it will be minimal however.

Will the wall panels behind the monitors (2" 703) be doing me any good?, or should they be used as a cloud instead? Monitors are Yamaha HS-80's.

YES!!! They are doing a lot of good! Now there is some question in my mind whether those Yammy monitors are doing you any favors, but that is another story!!!

First off, you need to treat the area behind the monitors for first-order reflections, that is a given. You need *something* back there, whether it is foam or 703, or whatever.

Secondly, depending on the room, it might be a good idea to have some serious bass trapping on that wall beyond just controlling the reflections.


In my room for example, I made 2" traps for behind my monitors, and still had a few bumps and valleys that needed fixing. I went around the room with a couple of 4" traps testing different locations to see where I might need more trapping, and sure enough, it was the front wall. I am actually building 6" traps for behind my monitors this weekend (although it is cold as hell, and I am going to freeze my butt off!!!). I bought the wood and the fiberglass yesterday...



Best of luck man! The room looks sweet, and you are making GREAT progress!

I listened to one of the songs on your myspace, and I thought the drums sounded amazing already. Good job!

...

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by Jaques Beraques

I´m with you.
I don´t know why nobody is responding.Have you pissed them all of?
Maybe it´s because you seem to know what you are doing pretty well.
Sorry I can´t really help you with your design, but I will try from now on.

Crap, if it seems like I know what I'm doing, I'm screwed. Thanks for replying.

[johndykstra]

Originally Posted by Doublehelix

It will help, not hurt, but to be honest, I don't think it is going to help a whole lot in the low bass area since the foam pieces do not really absorb down very low. I have read where other folks have asked the very same question however, and it was generally accepted that it doesn't hurt, and actually adds some benefit, just not down real low.





I have used Goo-Gone in the past, and it does not come off easily, even with Goo-Gone. It takes a lot of elbow grease, and it some cases, some of the paint comes off with all of the glue. That stuff is nasty, I will never use it again. I know several colleagues that are still using foam, and they have switched to Velcro tabs.

I spent HOURS one time removing that stuff from the walls and ceiling from an old studio. Quite a pain in the rear!







There is some calculation around, do a Google search, for the depth of the well as they relate to the lowest wavelength that you are looking to diffuse. I cannot comment on the poly vs. QRD debate, but there are posts on this site where this is discussed to death.

No offense man, but you need to do some of the research yourself, which is why you are maybe not getting any responses. Folks have already addressed a lot of your questions already, but you need to go and search for them. Put in some effort and you will find that a lot of your questions are already answered around here and elsewhere (try John L Sayers forum as well).






Depending on the stands, the ones that are made to be filled come with plastic bags that you place inside of the stands, then fill the bags with sand. Make sure you are using kiln dried sand for sure! I am not sure how the Sonotubes will work or how they will fit into your stands, but there is no reason why they wouldn't work fine to hold the sand if you can make them fit.





They will provide some benefit for sure if the waves can easily penetrate the closet door. If you can hear the bass while standing in the closet with the door closed, then you will get some benefit. If it is worth the effort is another story!

The theory behind bass trapping is that they are converting the bass wave energy into heat energy so that the bass waves do not bounce back at you from reflecting off of the wall. The pink fluffy stuff will have some benefit, no problems there, but I am wondering how much of the waveform will be bouncing back into the room from the closet door.

I have also heard that closets can act as a form of pseudo bass traps on their own, so it is certainly worth a try to stick the pink stuff in there and see if it makes a difference.

My guess is that it will be minimal however.









YES!!! They are doing a lot of good! Now there is some question in my mind whether those Yammy monitors are doing you any favors, but that is another story!!!

First off, you need to treat the area behind the monitors for first-order reflections, that is a given. You need *something* back there, whether it is foam or 703, or whatever.

Secondly, depending on the room, it might be a good idea to have some serious bass trapping on that wall beyond just controlling the reflections.


In my room for example, I made 2" traps for behind my monitors, and still had a few bumps and valleys that needed fixing. I went around the room with a couple of 4" traps testing different locations to see where I might need more trapping, and sure enough, it was the front wall. I am actually building 6" traps for behind my monitors this weekend (although it is cold as hell, and I am going to freeze my butt off!!!). I bought the wood and the fiberglass yesterday...



Best of luck man! The room looks sweet, and you are making GREAT progress!

I listened to one of the songs on your myspace, and I thought the drums sounded amazing already. Good job!

...

Thanks for the heads up on the goo-gone. Worth a shot.

If you think I haven't been doing research, you'd be mistaken. I just can't find a laymans term difference in the sound of poly vs qrds. As far as the well depth goes, i understand the concept...but I'm wondering how far down (depth/frequency) is appropriate for the amount of distance from the source... maybe it's not calculated that way.

I don't think you understand regarding the speaker stands... the sonotubes are the stands.

The closet door has been removed, to allow the tape machine to hang out.


Thanks for the compliments on my progress, it's been a real learning experience thus far.

My copy of "master handbook of acoustics" came in the mail today. I've got myself some reading to do!

Oh, and there's some more recent recordings from the room on this thread:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/work-...k-brutial.html

second to last post is recorded in the room "as was"? if that makes sense.

[Jaques Beraques]

Originally Posted by dykstraster@gmai

I just can't find a laymans term difference in the sound of poly vs qrds. As far as the well depth goes, i understand the concept...but I'm wondering how far down (depth/frequency) is appropriate for the amount of distance from the source... maybe it's not calculated that way.

QRD Diffuser Well Depth Calculator

Is that helpful ?

[Doublehelix]

Thanks for the heads up on the goo-gone. Worth a shot.

Don't expect miracles! It did work eventually however, it was just a lot of work!

If you think I haven't been doing research, you'd be mistaken. I just can't find a laymans term difference in the sound of poly vs qrds. As far as the well depth goes, i understand the concept...but I'm wondering how far down (depth/frequency) is appropriate for the amount of distance from the source... maybe it's not calculated that way.

The link posted above is one of the easiest to use, but doesn't help you with the polys. I am assuming you have seen these threads?


Sonotube Diffusor

Polyfusiors - The Truth

I don't think you understand regarding the speaker stands... the sonotubes are the stands.

Ahhhhh... Got it. Yeah, kiln-dried sand is your best bet there, and should work fine. The goal is to provide a solid support system, and if it is from a sonotube, it makes no difference as long as it is completely solid and sturdy. Will the floor below the stands be carpeted?

I started using concrete slabs (two stacked 16X16 concrete stepping stones, actually) under my speaker stands several years ago, and that really added some serious base support, especially in the old room that had a carpeted floor. In my new room, I have a wooden floor, and I was a bit worried about scratching the new floor, so I went without the slabs. I am now going to put them back in, just with a layer of thin neoprene under the concrete to protect the floor.

The closet door has been removed, to allow the tape machine to hang out.

I see. You will definitely want some bass trapping in there then. From the looks of the rest of your design, you don't want to skimp on any one area. As they say, "The weakest link..." and all that. Pink fluffy stuff can be very good if it is really thick, and if you leave it in the plastic rolls, it is a bit compressed already. Too many folks dismiss pink fluffy insulation in favor of rigid fiberglass or Roxal due to their higher density, but if you have a lot of air to work with, a really thick application of pink insulation works really well.

Thanks for the compliments on my progress, it's been a real learning experience thus far.

The room looks great so far, seriously! I love the design and the alternating traps/polys. Cool look, that is for sure.


Just listening to your 2 new tracks as I am typing. Good stuff brother! Christian rock, yes?

My copy of "master handbook of acoustics" came in the mail today. I've got myself some reading to do!

Oh yeah, light reading, that one! Great book! It will help you with the QRD design as well. Be prepared to have to read and re-read some sections!!!





Take care, you've got a great place coming!