Good sounding rooms or treatment?

[mr. torture]

I was watching that Def Leppard DVD "Hysteria" where they talked about Mutt lange. He liked good sounding rooms, he didn't check to see the response, calculate dimensions or make sure the corners were stuffed with Rockwool, he simply listened for a good room.

Many of the backup vocals were done in hallways and stuff because they sounded good. I read that Judas Priest recorded the guitars for British Steel in a foyer, no treatment at all (Beatles old house I believe).

So, how can these pro's get away with just standard built rooms, non-studio designed?

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by mr. torture

So, how can these pro's get away with just standard built rooms, non-studio designed?

Engineer's experience/talent and recording chain!

Regards,

[slaves666]

It is impossible to say exactly what might work or not. You picked 2 HUGE records, and to be honest, I think the songs and performance were what sold the record, not where and how it was recorded.

Nick Rasculinecz recorded the Foo Fighters and said that 1 time was in a huge studio, and another was in a log cabin with blankets on the wall. He can barely tell a difference between the two records.

FYI - the Metal Gods stomp on British Steel was a tray of cutlery from the kitchen shaken to the beat.

[mr. torture]

This is very interesting, why do studio's spend so much on treatment? I understand isolation being critical, but who cares about the many other reasons discussed in this forum as they clearly don't matter that much?

.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by mr. torture

This is very interesting, why do studio's spend so much on treatment? I understand isolation being critical, but who cares about the many other reasons discussed in this forum as they clearly don't matter that much?

.

I think you are confusing a tracking room with a control room sound. You want the control room to be as flat as possible so you can make judgments on the mix from the monitors. Not the room plus the monitors. That is where most of the acoustic treatment goes. As far as tracking rooms you do need bass trapping, but it is built to have certain sound. The problem though is if it has this one "certain sound" and you record all the tracks in that one room. You end up with "a lot of tracks" with that one sound. Does it sound good? maybe or maybe not.

Glenn

[steveschizoid]

Originally Posted by mr. torture

This is very interesting, why do studio's spend so much on treatment? I understand isolation being critical, but who cares about the many other reasons discussed in this forum as they clearly don't matter that much?.

+1! Who needs treatment when you can just burn cd after cd and run back and forth to your car?! I am thinking of taking my Corolla apart and reaasembling it in my control room so I can just mix while sitting in the driver's seat! dfegadmy Adam S3a's and bass traps!

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by steveschizoid

+1! Who needs treatment when you can just burn cd after cd and run back and forth to your car?! I am thinking of taking my Corolla apart and reaasembling it in my control room so I can just mix while sitting in the driver's seat! dfegadmy Adam S3a's and bass traps!

...that was funny Andy.

Tracking rooms, on the other hand don't need as much or the same type of work in terms of acoustic treatment. The issues we run into a lot around here have more to do with rooms that *don't* sound good from the get-go...things like low ceilings or very small spaces...in both of those cases it's hard to get a room to sound "good" at all without some kind of work.

On the other hand, if you're recording an album and the lobby outside the control room sounds exactly like the vibe you want for the the vocal, then record it in the lobby. Who cares? If it sounds good, it is good. On the other hand, if you're trying to record in a room that just doesn't sound good, it'll be a very frustrating experience.

Frank

[mr. torture]

Originally Posted by steveschizoid

+1! Who needs treatment when you can just burn cd after cd and run back and forth to your car?! I am thinking of taking my Corolla apart and reaasembling it in my control room so I can just mix while sitting in the driver's seat! dfegadmy Adam S3a's and bass traps!

I didn't think this was funny at all, I asked a question and expected a mature reply, I guess I got what I expected from an internet forum.

Thank you to everyone that answered my questions like an adult.

[steveschizoid]

Originally Posted by mr. torture

Thank you to everyone that answered my questions like an adult.

Llighten up man! Mr. Krabs is my hero! And forgive me, I hate being an adult! But seriously, my derisive humor stems directly from the experience of trying to mix in an untreated, dishonest room and having had to waste literally hundreds of cd's checking the kick drum and bass in the car. Not too long ago I was in a studio that had an entire wall of the mixing room that was one big bass trap!

I'm sure that very talented people have used all sorts of different sounding rooms artistically, but a room can put an indelible stamp on the music recorded therein. If you don't like that sound, it's awfully difficult to deal with once it's already tracked. I believe there was a really cool song on Fleetwood Mac's Tusk where Lindsey Buckingham sang his part in the bathroom, but they didn't record the whole album in there.

I am sorry if you didn't like the (albeit slightly obnoxious) way I expressed myself, but the idea that acoustics don't matter is hard to take seriously. Everything that happens to a sound matters.

[andrebrito]

Most of these huge rooms have lots of furniture and carpets that absorb and diffuse sound

[nosebleedaudio]

Originally Posted by mr. torture

I was watching that Def Leppard DVD "Hysteria" where they talked about Mutt lange. He liked good sounding rooms, he didn't check to see the response, calculate dimensions or make sure the corners were stuffed with Rockwool, he simply listened for a good room.

Many of the backup vocals were done in hallways and stuff because they sounded good. I read that Judas Priest recorded the guitars for British Steel in a foyer, no treatment at all (Beatles old house I believe).

So, how can these pro's get away with just standard built rooms, non-studio designed?

What ever works...
I know quite a few people that use their bathroom for Gtr amps, but if they had BETTER rooms no doubt they would use them...
There is a bathroom in my building that has a nice short reverb sound...A Gtr amp would sound good..or a vocal... not sure how a person would feel recording in a bathroom.

Also a huge difference in a properly designed room and one that just happens to work for some things...

[avare]

Originally Posted by nosebleedaudio

Also a huge difference in a properly designed room and one that just happens to work for some things...

What a great summary! Thanks.

Andre

[chet.d]

What, no recoil stabilizers under those B&W 805's ??

I thought I'd resurrect this thread a bit as I was looking at these appealing pictures while wondering (as I have been a lot lately) what to do to my own room (that is much less ideal) and thought...
I guess some rooms (even control rooms?) don't need much if any bass traps, panels etc.

Google Image Result for http://www.electrical.com/StudioA/pics/studioA-controlroom-01.jpg


I understand the different tracking rooms must clearly have their own sonic appeal, but I also didn't see any treatment in the control room. And clearly these guys know what they're doing. I'm guessing the control room must be tuned and set up in a proper way.

In my small world I have to track and mix in the same room so that's my own puzzle to figure out.

It also seems to me that people like Glen, Ethan and Frank etc. provide a valuable insight for those of us with rooms that simply need help and are thwarted by disposable cash.
And thanks go out for the help they kindly offer around here.

Still, I found the pics interesting.
And while wey're looking at interesting studio pics,

Motown Musuem

And then of course, the right people were in the right room.

[Glenn Kuras]

Design and placement is very important but you still have to treat the room. A lot of studios you see that look like they don't have treat is misleading. It is not that there is NOT treatment but it is built into the walls, most of the time.

[spm_gl]

No treatment??? Did you look at the rest of the pics?
http://www.electrical.com/StudioA/pi...oA-back-02.jpg

[fabricaudio]

The idea of a good sounding room is to accommodate many projects-different instruments etc. . Being able to track everything in one room that can virtually simulate lots of spaces makes it easier on terms of cost and design and cheaper for the musicians

Lets say that i want to track my Fender Rhodes at the stairs of our 4 store building and get all this nice reverb. It will sound brilliant!!!

But first i need to wire the mics from the control room out there and also tell the neighbors that i will annoy them for the next couple of days.

From the other hand you can do whatever you want if you are in a studio in the forest, that nobody knows where is it and only have big clients, (i hope thats the case).


So commercial studios tend to be more flexible in terms of acoustics and that is what keep them alive (i hope!!)


Nikolas

[nickolo]

Producers like Mutt Lang and others will use interesting spaces for character for capturing but they will want to hear a fairly accurate representation wether it be in a proper commercial studio or their home studios..I think mutt Lang did [or some of it]that def lepperd record at Wisseloord studios/holland..which is a great studio-nice live rooms and control rooms but properly designed acoustics throughout..

[chet.d]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

Design and placement is very important but you still have to treat the room. A lot of studios you see that look like they don't have treat is misleading. It is not that there is NOT treatment but it is built into the walls, most of the time.

I see what you mean Glen.
I guess there's something going on in the corners of the rooms ? behind the walls in way of bass trapping.

Originally Posted by spm_gl

No treatment??? Did you look at the rest of the pics?
http://www.electrical.com/StudioA/pi...oA-back-02.jpg

Yeah, I noticed the diffusion above in the control room.
I was curious why some larger studios control rooms have panels lateral on the walls at reflection points, and some don't.

[spm_gl]

Originally Posted by chet.d

Yeah, I noticed the diffusion above in the control room.

If you look closely, you can see that the wall is made of panels. Not necessarily all bass traps though (I don't know any details of this room, just looking at the pics)

[avare]

Originally Posted by chet.d

I see what you mean Glen.
I guess there's something going on in the corners of the rooms ? behind the walls in way of bass trapping.

It is not just bass trapping that it could be. As an example, if you see a large panel with some depth in a studio with an an obviously transparent cover material, the panel could be a:

high and mid frequency absorber
broad range absorber (aka bass trap)
tuned panel absorber
tuned Helmholtz resonator
cylindrical diffusor
Schroede style diffuser

Wood finish walls could have varying thicknesses of backing creating different tuned panel absorbers.

WAlls, or more likely ceilings with apparent plater finish could be made from acousitc plaster, creating aboseobers.

All the above are not apparent from first glance at the features.

Andre

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by avare

It is not just bass trapping that it could be. As an example, if you see a large panel with some depth in a studio with an an obviously transparent cover material, the panel could be a:

high and mid frequency absorber
broad range absorber (aka bass trap)
tuned panel absorber
tuned Helmholtz resonator
cylindrical diffusor
Schroede style diffuser

Wood finish walls could have varying thicknesses of backing creating different tuned panel absorbers.

WAlls, or more likely ceilings with apparent plater finish could be made from acousitc plaster, creating aboseobers.

All the above are not apparent from first glance at the features.

Andre

That why there are guys like you to do these kinds of things.

[chet.d]

Originally Posted by avare

It is not just bass trapping that it could be. As an example, if you see a large panel with some depth in a studio with an an obviously transparent cover material, the panel could be a:

high and mid frequency absorber
broad range absorber (aka bass trap)
tuned panel absorber
tuned Helmholtz resonator
cylindrical diffusor
Schroede style diffuser

Wood finish walls could have varying thicknesses of backing creating different tuned panel absorbers.

WAlls, or more likely ceilings with apparent plater finish could be made from acousitc plaster, creating aboseobers.

All the above are not apparent from first glance at the features.

Andre

Wow, Really interesting Andre.
It's a science I'm really curious about though it must take much research I'll bet.

[Raider]

I think the songs and performance were what sold the record, not where and how it was recorded.

This is the rule, rather than the exception, in ALL recorded material.