My French style ceiling cloud

[Driller]

Greetings,

For a long time I was fixed on buying Ethan's Realtraps which I think are great but being a bit of a DIYer I decided to build my own acoustic treatment.

This allowed me to use cotton insulation since I found with previous rockwool treatment in another studio I got a scratchy throat. This may have also been the effect of the hesian I covered it with which was why this time I bought Cara fabric (like the Guilford of Maine stuff).

Over here in France they use U-section galvanised steel studs for interior walls which are light weight and which are formed to accept and hold 50 mm (2 inch) insulation panels.

I really didn't want to use wood frames and the metal is not only lighter (it's very thin) but easily fixed together with rivets. Also by fixing the fabric inside the frame (see later) the acoustic treatment is framed which gives a nice appearence.

Here is an (old) piece of stud:



Here is the first ceiling cloud frame (3m by 2.40m) riveted together:





With Cara fabric and some thin wooden cross members to support the relatively limp cotton:

(image deleted as can only have six :( )

I found a secret weapon to fix the Cara fabric in place. A glue gun! It fixes the fabric tighly down almost instantaneously. It allows you to stretch the fabric tight for a nice finish.

Closeup of cotton panel in position, you can see the shape of the frame which holds the cotton in place.



Cloud fully loaded with cotton panels:



Up, up and away!






I'll show you the other cloud and the mid/high absorbers and 34" face superchunks when they're finished

Cheers
Driller

[hisbluness]

Looks very nice.

Im not sure but it seems that your cloud has a solid back which is, as far as I know, not very desireable.

[Driller]

Originally Posted by hisbluness

Looks very nice.

Im not sure but it seems that your cloud has a solid back which is, as far as I know, not very desireable.

What gives you that impression? Is it the fabric which is so beautifully and uniformly stretched that it gives the impression of being solid?

In addition my vaulted ceiling means that I have 2" odd of space above the cloud which increases efficiency.

[hisbluness]

Originally Posted by Driller

What gives you that impression? Is it the fabric which is so beautifully and uniformly stretched that it gives the impression of being solid?

In addition my vaulted ceiling means that I have 2" odd of space above the cloud which increases efficiency.

Oh my bad. The fabric just looked so plain that I thought it was wood

Nevermind then, excellent work!

[Driller]

Originally Posted by hisbluness

Oh my bad. The fabric just looked so plain that I thought it was wood

Nevermind then, excellent work!

Cheers then! The colour is called "sand" and when you are in the same room it is a golden colour which glints slightly.

Anything luminous has no place in my studio .

ETA Anyway...you can't really see much in these small photos, I'll take a close up and post later,

cheers
Driller

[Glenn Kuras]

wow you did a wonderful job on this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Glenn

[Driller]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

wow you did a wonderful job on this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Glenn

Cheers Glenn

Just for precision in case it's not obvious, the middle three rails are actually two rails riveted back to back. Aside from allowing it to hold the cotton each side, this radically increases the stiffness of the whole frame.

In Rods book he talks about light (and heavy) metal studding so it may be that this is available in the US.

[benevis66]

Beautiful work monsieur!

A few questions as i'm in Europe as well (Greece)

What company makes the cotton insulation? i cant seem to find it as easily as the regular stuff - rockwool etc.
I know it's probably provided by the new age eco friendly type building material suppliers but the trend hasn't really caught on here, as of yet...

Was it very expensive compared to other insulation?

Did you use the "backed" Cara fabric or the regular open weave type?

Thanks in advance

Ben

[Driller]

Originally Posted by benevis66

Beautiful work monsieur!

A few questions as i'm in Europe as well (Greece)

What company makes the cotton insulation? i cant seem to find it as easily as the regular stuff - rockwool etc.
I know it's probably provided by the new age eco friendly type building material suppliers but the trend hasn't really caught on here, as of yet...

Was it very expensive compared to other insulation?

Did you use the "backed" Cara fabric or the regular open weave type?

Thanks in advance

Ben

Hi Ben,

The company that makes the cotton insulation is called Isoa, it's a French company.

LAINE DE COTON : un isolant naturel

It's an eu address so I don't know whether that means it's available throughout Europe.

In the Uk the product is called Isonat but apparently this is manufactured in France so I'm guessing it's the same product, same factory.

I bought it at the DIY chain Leroymerlin.fr here. It is relatively expensive:

Each 1200mx 600mm x 40/50mm panel is €10.90 this is what I used for the clouds and mid/high absorbers.

For the corner chunk traps I used 1200mm by 600mm by 200mm thick (these are really nice heavy chunks of insulation!) These panels cost €32.50 each so again quite expensive.

You can also buy rolls of 6M by 600mm x 100mm thick at €79.90 (which I didn't buy).

Including the panels I used for the interior of my sound baffles I bought 34 of the 50mm panels and 12 of the 200mm panels so I make that a total of €730!

I think this is a bit cheaper n the UK. Maybe some other folk have found a cheaper source.

That's the first time I've worked it out and that's quite a lot of money but this material is such a comfort to work with and there are no no nasty fibres floating about afterwards.

Especially for the ventilation system I'm happy not to have mineral fiber or Rockwool inside the baffles.

Because there is no problem with fibers I bought the non backed Cara from acoustipro/makingwaves at €9.26 the best price I could find in the UK.

I bought 34 meters of this so in total I reckon that gets me the record for the most spent on a DIY acoustic treatment

Fire away if you want more information.

Cheers
Driller

[GPl]

What a great idea! Thanks for posting this. I think I'll go this route for a cloud as I never got that far this summer...just too busy. Could you use sheet metal screws instead of rivets? I got a few boxes laying around.

[benevis66]

Cheers for the in depth info,

That is pretty expensive, but definitely worth it considering the environmental and health bonuses.
There is a Leroy Merlin store here in Greece so they'll probably have it too.

34 meter of Cara!!!Damn you must love that stuff...i have just ordered 10 meters of it myself from the same place, not backed as i'm going to wrap the Rockwool in medical gauze first.

Last Q:do you know ruffly what density (kg/m3)the Laine de coton is?

Thanks again

[Driller]

Originally Posted by GPl

What a great idea! Thanks for posting this. I think I'll go this route for a cloud as I never got that far this summer...just too busy. Could you use sheet metal screws instead of rivets? I got a few boxes laying around.

Cheers GPL, happy to be of service

One of the advantages of this system is that it's really quick to put together so if you're short on time it's perfect. Make sure you have a glue gun though it's not a big investment (€10) and it really does a wonderful and fast job fixing the fabric down.

Sheet metal screws will be fine, self tapping would be even quicker. Builders use these screws here to fix the rails together and also to fix the drywall to the rails so I don't see why it shouldn't work. I would definately prefer rivets though for a more secure joint, it doesn't take that long to pop them in.

I'm guessing you have an equivalent to these metal rails in the US then?

Originally Posted by benevis66

Cheers for the in depth info,

That is pretty expensive, but definitely worth it considering the environmental and health bonuses.
There is a Leroy Merlin store here in Greece so they'll probably have it too.

34 meter of Cara!!!Damn you must love that stuff...i have just ordered 10 meters of it myself from the same place, not backed as i'm going to wrap the Rockwool in medical gauze first.

Last Q:do you know ruffly what density (kg/m3)the Laine de coton is?

Thanks again

Hey ten meters is not bad going and actually I think I may have miscalculated and ordered a bit too much but I'm sure I'll find a use for it.

The laine de cotton is 30kg/m3 so perfect for superchunks and fine for mid/high absorbers.

Cheers
Driller

[ssl_ambition]

Nice work!

thx for the post.

btw. you`re really a DIY man, haha. You don`t even go to the dentist
because you own a drill by yourself.

[Driller]

Originally Posted by ssl_ambition

Nice work!

thx for the post.

btw. you`re really a DIY man, haha. You don`t even go to the dentist
because you own a drill by yourself.

Yeah but I'm never on the "business" end of the drill. Or am I?

[Driller]

And the second one is up, this one 2m40 by 2m20:

[DeadPoet]

Looks really nice!

I was wondering on the fabric: is this a matte or glossy type of fabric? And since it's synthetic, does it feel very synthetic?



TIA,

Herwig

[Driller]

Originally Posted by DeadPoet

Looks really nice!

I was wondering on the fabric: is this a matte or glossy type of fabric? And since it's synthetic, does it feel very synthetic?



TIA,

Herwig

The fabric is very uniform (unlike hessian/burlap) and slightly glossy giving it more of a stylish appearance. It looks like cotton and doesn't feel synthetic at all to me even though it's 100% polyolin (polyester?).

you can get it from Acousti Pro - Home at a very reasonable price.

[ssl_ambition]

Originally Posted by Driller

Yeah but I'm never on the "business" end of the drill. Or am I?

I don`t know. You look like you know what you`re doing in your avatar.
btw. what did they take for shipping the fabric from UK to France?

[Driller]

Originally Posted by ssl_ambition

I don`t know. You look like you know what you`re doing in your avatar.
btw. what did they take for shipping the fabric from UK to France?

I'm not sure the patient feels that way

Shipping was just under €50 to France for 34M of fabric.

[Holly]

I just found this thread and think the idea of using this "drywall construction" is great. Thinking of also doing it myself this way. Didn't you mention you wanted to post better pics?

And: how did you fix it to the ceiling? Shouldn't be so heavy, no?

[Driller]

Originally Posted by Holly

I just found this thread and think the idea of using this "drywall construction" is great. Thinking of also doing it myself this way. Didn't you mention you wanted to post better pics?

And: how did you fix it to the ceiling? Shouldn't be so heavy, no?

Hi Holly, just found your reply , .

If you're still around and you want better pics let me know.

I fixed them to the ceiling using metal brackets bolted to the side rails and fixed into the ceiling with rawl plugs.

I reckon the heavier of the two weighs about 40kg.

[slipperydip]

Impressive cloud!
After seeing your post, I am planning to build something similar... but in my room I would be covering up the ceiling light, so I need a solution for that....

One option I was thinking is to replace the current light with a plug, and then integrate some halogen lights into the cloud... then plug the cloud in! any thoughts? how have you handled lighting?

[Driller]

Originally Posted by slipperydip

Impressive cloud!
After seeing your post, I am planning to build something similar... but in my room I would be covering up the ceiling light, so I need a solution for that....

One option I was thinking is to replace the current light with a plug, and then integrate some halogen lights into the cloud... then plug the cloud in! any thoughts? how have you handled lighting?

Very simple: I sized the clouds to be 50cm from the ceiling edge and put spots around the edges. This gives a nice diffuse light, not too bright.

I don't see any reason why you couldn't fit some plywood in some areas of the clouds, straddling the rails and stuck down onto the cloth.

You could then cut holes out for spotlights.

[samsquarewave]

Oldish thread, but I'll ask - do we have this kind of railing in the US - looks perfect.

[Melgueil]

Yes indeed old thread - but hey, I just did one of these based on the suggestion on this thread. Yes this a (relatively) quick solution. The walls of my studio were constructed this way (rails and placo doubled up).

I am about to hang the cloud today. I found that when I cut the rails some sharp edges could protrude - so have to watch for that. All told this "cloud" cost me about 50 euros in materials from my local Leroy Merlin.
cdlt

[audio limit]

Very nice looking ceiling cloud.
Thanks for sharing that good idea.

[Melgueil]

Post script - I did hang that cloud and I also turned an IKEA bought painting on the wall into a killer absorber by stuffing sheets of "Firerock" (FRK) into it.

The difference this made on the Fuzz Measure graphs was incredible. Needless to say it sounds good too !. The whole damn thing (cloud and faux painting) cost me under 100 Euros. Great suggestion by OP.

Cdlt

[Steab]

Originally Posted by Melgueil

Post script - I did hang that cloud and I also turned an IKEA bought painting on the wall into a killer absorber by stuffing sheets of "Firerock" (FRK) into it.

The difference this made on the Fuzz Measure graphs was incredible. Needless to say it sounds good too !. The whole damn thing (cloud and faux painting) cost me under 100 Euros. Great suggestion by OP.

Cdlt

Pics?!

Cheers