The Dreaded 4 Letter "F" Word

spenceroo · 15th June 2008, 04:47 PM

I understand the bad rap foam gets, but hear me out here, and let me know your honest opinion. My small control room is in my basement with a standard drop ceiling (2x2 tiles, 7 foot height). The floor is concrete with indoor/outdoor carpet glued to it. Walls are pine barnwood siding. Instead of hanging a cloud over my mixing position, I'm thinking about buying some foam drop ceiling tiles (Foam by Mail) and installing them in the grid directly above me. Above the foam tiles, I plan on suspending a 4x4 rigid fiberglass bass trap in the air space between the tiles and the rafters. The rafters are stuffed with pink Owens Corning. Would this be a worthwhile endeavor, or is it just overkill? I guess what I'm thinking is that my ceiling would act as a big bass trap with the foam ceiling tiles being an entrance way for the sound to travel through. One other thing is the drop ceiling light (directly over my head) that drops into 2 of the grids and has a solid plastic cover over the florescent light bulbs. Should I get rid of it, or is it something I shouldn't worry about since a majority of the ceiling will be passing sound. I have GIK traps and some Sonex on the walls.

Ethan Winer · 15th June 2008, 05:38 PM

Foam is okay for ceiling reflections, but Foam By Mail is a fraud. Do not buy anything from them. What they sell is cheap packing foam. They faked their absorption data to make it look like real acoustic foam. Proof is on my company's Product Data page which shows the results of lab tests I paid for.

--Ethan

moracspace · 15th June 2008, 05:43 PM

Do you have proof of this Ethan?I would love to see the facts and research info you based your statement on.The link to your web site means nothing to me or anyone else.Lab tests are far from real world.I dont use it, but you sure slam it a bunch.

spenceroo · 15th June 2008, 05:59 PM

I realize that the FBM stuff isn't any good, but in my case I'm just trying to soften up the ceiling to allow the sound to be absorbed into it. Is there something better that would work? I'm just trying to make a "built in" ceiling cloud instead of hanging something over my working position. I'm not expecting the foam ceiling tiles to do anything other than allow the sound to be absorbed up into the ceiling and let the bass trap and additional fiberglass insulation to take over.

infopimpster · 15th June 2008, 06:03 PM

moracspace: IF Ethan posts objective data, will you apologize for being a turd?

Didn't think so.

avare · 15th June 2008, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spenceroo

I realize that the FBM stuff isn't any good,

That says it all. Is it fire rated?

The stuff reflects sound. It will not pass higher frequencies to you insulation above.

If you want to use foam, use a sculpted foam like what Markertek sells. Markertek happens to be cheapest I know of.

Why foam at all? Cover the insulation with an open fabric.

Andre

spenceroo · 15th June 2008, 06:31 PM

Hi Avare,

If those foam ceiling tiles reflect the sound, then I'll forget about them. I understand about covering the insulation above the tiles with fabric, but that means I'll have a bunch of 2x2 openings in my drop ceiling which wouldn't look all that great. It would look like I never finished the ceiling. Maybe I should just leave the original ceiling tiles in and load up the walls with more traps. I'd still need to kill first reflections off the ceiling right? How can I do this without hanging a cloud?

avare · 15th June 2008, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spenceroo

If those foam ceiling tiles reflect the sound, then I'll forget about them.

We are getting into a common problem on communicating by posts. With out clear references, what is being discussed gets lost.

Which foam ceiling tiles are "those ceiling tiles?" You started with FBM, Ethan clarified what FBM is. I mentioned generic sculpted and suggested Markertek as a source. That is now three possibilities, one which is still quite open.

Andre

spenceroo · 16th June 2008, 02:35 AM

Andre,

You quoted me as saying "I realize the FBM stuff isn't any good", then went on to say the "stuff reflects sound", so I figured you were talking about the FBM ceiling tiles reflecting sound.

avare · 16th June 2008, 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spenceroo

You quoted me as saying "I realize the FBM stuff isn't any good", then went on to say the "stuff reflects sound", so I figured you were talking about the FBM ceiling tiles reflecting sound.

Thanks for the clarification.

Andre

spenceroo · 16th June 2008, 12:09 PM

To simplify things, is there anything I can use in my drop ceiling grid (2x2 squares) to avoid having to suspend a cloud above my listening position?

Glenn Kuras · 16th June 2008, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spenceroo

To simplify things, is there anything I can use in my drop ceiling grid (2x2 squares) to avoid having to suspend a cloud above my listening position?

Sure you could get some more panels but have them made to 2x2 and just slip them right into the grid. We do that for customers all the time.

Glenn

Glenn Kuras · 16th June 2008, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moracspace

Do you have proof of this Ethan?I would love to see the facts and research info you based your statement on.The link to your web site means nothing to me or anyone else.Lab tests are far from real world.I dont use it, but you sure slam it a bunch.

What part of the data don't you seem to understand from the lab? With the numbers that far off from what they claimed and what Ethan got in the lab I would think it is pretty clear. Do you know something we don't?

Glenn

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15th June 2008, 04:47 PM	#1
spenceroo Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 91	The Dreaded 4 Letter "F" Word I understand the bad rap foam gets, but hear me out here, and let me know your honest opinion. My small control room is in my basement with a standard drop ceiling (2x2 tiles, 7 foot height). The floor is concrete with indoor/outdoor carpet glued to it. Walls are pine barnwood siding. Instead of hanging a cloud over my mixing position, I'm thinking about buying some foam drop ceiling tiles (Foam by Mail) and installing them in the grid directly above me. Above the foam tiles, I plan on suspending a 4x4 rigid fiberglass bass trap in the air space between the tiles and the rafters. The rafters are stuffed with pink Owens Corning. Would this be a worthwhile endeavor, or is it just overkill? I guess what I'm thinking is that my ceiling would act as a big bass trap with the foam ceiling tiles being an entrance way for the sound to travel through. One other thing is the drop ceiling light (directly over my head) that drops into 2 of the grids and has a solid plastic cover over the florescent light bulbs. Should I get rid of it, or is it something I shouldn't worry about since a majority of the ceiling will be passing sound. I have GIK traps and some Sonex on the walls.

15th June 2008, 05:38 PM	#2
Ethan Winer Lives for gear Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: New Milford, CT, USA Posts: 4,098	Foam is okay for ceiling reflections, but Foam By Mail is a fraud. Do not buy anything from them. What they sell is cheap packing foam. They faked their absorption data to make it look like real acoustic foam. Proof is on my company's Product Data page which shows the results of lab tests I paid for. --Ethan __________________ www.realtraps.com The acoustic treatment experts ----------------------- Amazing Telecaster guitar video

15th June 2008, 05:43 PM	#3
moracspace Lives for gear Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: On the 2 buss Posts: 1,261	Do you have proof of this Ethan?I would love to see the facts and research info you based your statement on.The link to your web site means nothing to me or anyone else.Lab tests are far from real world.I dont use it, but you sure slam it a bunch. __________________ SHAKE AND BAKE That bassist couldnt be in the pocket if he was lint. (Jan 2007) Ray Gagliardino In daBag http://www.myspace.com/3sixteenband http://www.myspace.com/pick13music http://www.myspace.com/lesin http://www.myspace.com/themightyparadocs http://www.myspace.com/contagionde http://www.myspace.com/withoutlogicband

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15th June 2008, 05:59 PM	#4
spenceroo Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 91	I realize that the FBM stuff isn't any good, but in my case I'm just trying to soften up the ceiling to allow the sound to be absorbed into it. Is there something better that would work? I'm just trying to make a "built in" ceiling cloud instead of hanging something over my working position. I'm not expecting the foam ceiling tiles to do anything other than allow the sound to be absorbed up into the ceiling and let the bass trap and additional fiberglass insulation to take over.

15th June 2008, 06:03 PM	#5
infopimpster Gear addict Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Santa Cruz Mountains Posts: 460	moracspace: IF Ethan posts objective data, will you apologize for being a turd? Didn't think so.

15th June 2008, 06:31 PM	#7
spenceroo Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 91	Hi Avare, If those foam ceiling tiles reflect the sound, then I'll forget about them. I understand about covering the insulation above the tiles with fabric, but that means I'll have a bunch of 2x2 openings in my drop ceiling which wouldn't look all that great. It would look like I never finished the ceiling. Maybe I should just leave the original ceiling tiles in and load up the walls with more traps. I'd still need to kill first reflections off the ceiling right? How can I do this without hanging a cloud?

16th June 2008, 02:35 AM	#9
spenceroo Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 91	Andre, You quoted me as saying "I realize the FBM stuff isn't any good", then went on to say the "stuff reflects sound", so I figured you were talking about the FBM ceiling tiles reflecting sound.

16th June 2008, 12:09 PM	#11
spenceroo Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 91	To simplify things, is there anything I can use in my drop ceiling grid (2x2 squares) to avoid having to suspend a cloud above my listening position?