suitability of ultratouch cotton vs 703 fiberglass

[sethmeister]

Has anyone actually done any testing on the suitability of Bonded Logic's Ultratouch cotton insulation product for use in bass traps versus the typical OC703?

Ethan, et al?

Thanks!

Seth

[danbronson]

I'm curious as well. How does this stuff work in the low frequencies like 125 Hz specifically?

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by sethmeister

Has anyone actually done any testing on the suitability of Bonded Logic's Ultratouch cotton insulation product for use in bass traps versus the typical OC703?

Normally, it's up to the vendor to provide test data, so that's where I'd look first. I also found this:

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

I see a few cotton products listed there.

--Ethan

[sethmeister]

Thanks. Already saw that data and if it is indeed correct it looks good.

.95 at 125hz for 3.5" (R13) Ultratouch

versus

.88 at 125hz for OC 703 4" FRK (or .84 without FRK)

So it would appear that Ultratouch would be at least as good?

[Ethan Winer]

Data is not 100 percent accurate at low frequencies, but obviously the cotton stuff works.

--Ethan

[Lissajous]

Originally Posted by sethmeister

Has anyone actually done any testing on the suitability of Bonded Logic's Ultratouch cotton insulation product for use in bass traps versus the typical OC703?

Ultratouch works excellent for bass trapping. Here are the details as well:

Bonded Logic - Natural Cotton Fiber Insulation

[7om]

I'm considering building some corner bass traps out of the Ultratouch in that superchunk stack-o-triangles style. I was looking at the different insulation ratings, which appear simply to be thicker batts. What I'm wondering is if I should be trying to pack the stuff down a little so that it is a bit more dense, or if I should let the triangles just lay at their natural width. Any thoughts?

[Berolzheimer]

I used the Bonded Logic stuff inside my walls, and when the outer walls were complete and stuffed, the room sounded great. Unfortunately I still had to put plywood/soundboard/drywall over it.

[KingUgly]

UltraTouch is much more flexible than rockwool, so if you're building traps, take that into consideration.

In order of most irritating on skin and breathing, though, I'd say 703 (very irritating), rockwool (don't even really notice it, but does have formaldehyde), then the cotton. The cotton is very cool just not as rigid as I'd like.

I went back to my first love, rockwool.

[bpape]

The cotton, when used chunk style as you described, will work very well. Thickness helps a lot. If you want to compress it a little, the additional density will not hurt anything. I have people use it all the time who cannot tolerate mineral wool or fiberglass for a variety of reasons.

Bryan

[Captain Crunch]

speaking of the cotton, Ultratouch, how are people making it stay flat within a panel?

I'm building some panels, the frames are done, and I have some good strong fabric (that breathes!) to stretch over it. I'm envisioning it being fairly flat for awhile, then sagging over time. The options to avoid this I've thought of are: some kind of netting, like hardware cloth, under the fabric; some wooden bars on the face of it to obscure the sag; or maybe the fabric itself will just work.

what are others using?

[bpape]

Put a clip in the top so it actually just hangs from the frame. It's own weight will keep it hanging flat.

Bryan

[Speaker BOy]

Just use a staple-gun to staple the ultratouch to the frame all of the way around. I did this and it held fine.

I wouldn't go through the effort of cutting ultratouch panels for making corner wedges. Unless someone else has found a good method to cut it don't bother. A razorblade doesnt work at all. I found some 3inch heavy duty cut anything(Metal, plastic, cloth) scissors at HD. They worked, but it took over a half an hour to cut each panel. Since ultratouch compresses slowly over time it took 11 sheets of R-30 to build two 8ft tall corner wedges. That much R-30(8inch) should have been enough for 29 ft of corners, instead of 16ft.

I have noticed a large difference in bass quality since adding the ultratouch corner wedges. I moved around my living room some so I need to do a before and after again. My original measurements saw improvement to about 70hz. But my 50hz peak didnt change.
Jeff

[Lissajous]

Originally Posted by Speaker BOy

I wouldn't go through the effort of cutting ultratouch panels for making corner wedges. Unless someone else has found a good method to cut it don't bother. A razorblade doesnt work at all. I found some 3inch heavy duty cut anything(Metal, plastic, cloth) scissors at HD. They worked, but it took over a half an hour to cut each panel.

You need this: Insul-Knife

[Speaker BOy]

Yeah I saw that, but a razorblade could barely scratch the surface. So I was not going to make a $30 online gamble purchase(If it sounds to good to be true...).

Have you used that on Ultratouch Cotton? I just don't believe it would work on ultratouch unless someone has actually used it on ultratouch.

Just Imagine trying to cut a dense 8" thick cottonball with strings and jean material mixed in. Everytime you hit a string or jean material you end up tearing all of the cotton around it.

Jeff

[Lissajous]

Originally Posted by Speaker BOy

Yeah I saw that, but a razorblade could barely scratch the surface. So I was not going to make a $30 online gamble purchase(If it sounds to good to be true...).

Have you used that on Ultratouch Cotton? I just don't believe it would work on ultratouch unless someone has actually used it on ultratouch.

I have not but if you look at the Ultratouch page on GreenDepot they list it at the bottom as "We also recommend"

[dredbird]

They're really pushing insul knife for that purpose here.

My Insulknife just arrived from Amazon.com and I used it on some cotton insulation I'm using for acoustical treatment of a room. Cotton insulation (5.5 " thick) is notoriously difficult to cut, but your Insulknife made it easy.

"Insul-Knife is excellent for cutting Ultra Touch Cotten Fiber Insulation"

[jwl]

I agree, don't bother cutting the Ultratouch into triangles.

The stuff works great acoustically but it's very floppy. For this reason, I recommend simply stuffing as many batts into the corner as you can, hold them in place with something like bungee cords, and then build a false frame (think, giant speaker grille) in front and cover it with cloth.

That's the simplest way to get something that looks good.

You may want to get both the 24" wide batts and the 16" wide batts, and stack them in the corner (16" further back, 24" on top of that, false grille frame on top of that).

[Lissajous]

When you guys bought your Ultratouch, how many batts per bag did you get and how much did it cost? I'm trying to get an idea on how much some traps are going to cost to make but the Green Depot website is a little confusing. If someone could break it down that would be great -- thanks.

[jwl]

It's been a while since I checked pricing, but last time I checked a local dealer had a bag of 4 batts, 24"x94"x5.5", for around $60.

[Lissajous]

Originally Posted by jwl

It's been a while since I checked pricing, but last time I checked a local dealer had a bag of 4 batts, 24"x94"x5.5", for around $60.

Thanks!

[balanceman]

we did all the walls and basstraps with ultratouch @ my place. the bags have different amounts of pieces depending on the R value. R13 might have X amount, but R19 has a different amount.
we used "insulation netting" fine, nylon net to hold the insulation in to the bass traps.
in a couple of places, you can see the pattern of the netting through the fabric - this only happened on 2 panels, and only along 1 edge (where it makes a 90 degree bend around the framing piece)

[balanceman]

Don't buy the insult knife without a good sharpener!!
I cheesed out and didn't buy their suggested sharpener and I spent way too much time with a rod style knife sharpener.
it's OK to use the ghetto sharpener, but you need to make pirate noises while your sharpening the blade (which you will do a thousand times a day!

yarrgh!! shiver me timbers

[7om]

Originally Posted by balanceman

Don't buy the insult knife without a good sharpener!!
I cheesed out and didn't buy their suggested sharpener and I spent way too much time with a rod style knife sharpener.
it's OK to use the ghetto sharpener, but you need to make pirate noises while your sharpening the blade (which you will do a thousand times a day!

yarrgh!! shiver me timbers

Sounds like you are saying that the knife does work well when it is sharp. Is that correct. Is it reasonable to cut triangles, or do you agree with jwl that ultratouch is not well suited to this purpose?

[balanceman]

it works well when sharp, but dulls quickly.
I suppose you could make triangles - it would be a lot of cutting though...
I found myself tearing the ultratouch more often than actually cutting it...
it depends on how clean you need the lines... I would think the insulation will be behind some fabric or pegboard or something
tearing works pretty well, it just makes a lot of dust and a sloppy edge.

[Lissajous]

Any of you hanging/suspending Ultratouch? If so, how did you do the mounting.

[sethmeister]

Originally Posted by Lissajous

Any of you hanging/suspending Ultratouch? If so, how did you do the mounting.

I second this question.

[KingUgly]

I think ultratouch's advantage is that it's very flexible. I've used it in walls, for corner traps, under shelves, and in general, nooks and crannies. Stuff an extra cardboard box full of ultratouch and seal it up and you've got a bonus bass trap. But for standard 2' x 4' traps to hang on the wall, I wouldn't do it. Not that it can't be done, it just seems like more trouble than it's worth.

[Speaker BOy]

Putting Ultratouch into a frame is not very difficult. Just staple it to the wood frame. You have to staple it all of the way around on both sides. I am using 1x6 framing for my R-30 ultratouch. It is supposed to be 8" thick, but is more like 5-6" thick when slightly compressed.

Around here I got a great deal on the Ultratouch R-30 64sqft. The total came to $67 with tax. Most of these guys really like to hear about people doing strange projects. It must get boring having people over and over again buying insulation for walls.

[Stevil]

i picked up my batch of ultratouch from these guys, they post their pricing
& theyre in northern San Diego county
UltraTouch Natural Cotton Fiber Acoustic Insulation - LEED eligible

i'm still playing with the design. i built some frames but the ultratouch is looking a little saggy in them, so i'm looking to go with a .5"x.5" wire mesh roll staple gunned to the frame to lock it in.