Basstraps in Germany, suitable material?

[jaykay]

Hi Guys.............long time reader, rarely a poster etc....oops.

Question; I have read, I think, all the threads on bass-trapping but don't see an answer to this anywhere.

I am having a serious problem hunting down a suitable material to put in my bass-traps. I know a lot of you have access to some semi-rigid material like Cornings 703 or Rockwool RW3 but it just doesn't exist here in Germany!! The people at Rockwool are most unhelpful (unknowledgeable) about the specifications of their own products and the only material I can find (not Rockwool) costs around 460€ for a pack of 18x40mm sheets.

Is there an alternative to be found in Germany? If so, can someone here please tell me. I am at my wits end and really want my room to be finished without having to spend 1000€+ on just the innards of the traps.

Thanks

[paddy64]

Hi
Here's a couple of threads that may be useful:

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm

OC 703 / Rockwool (USA / EU)
Recording Studio Design :: View topic - Rockwool Raf-SE

There's a guy on the johnlsayers.com site that suggests Isover SSP2 or Superglass TS35, which apparently are both available in Germany.

Rocksil RS45 / Rockwall RWA 45 = 703.

Rocksil RS60 / Rockwall RW3 = 705

RW3 has a density of 60kg/m3
RWA45 is 45kg/m3

If you can find a rockwool supplier in Germany you just need to find out the density of the product and match it as closely to the density of RWA 45 or RW3.

I would recommend the johnlsayers.com site in addition to this one as a valuable information source for building traps.

The world would be a slightly less frustrating place if everyone could fix on one name for building products - it's not like we're writing poems.

[Jaques Beraques]

You solltest Googlen nach "Dämmplatten" or "Feuerschutzdämmplatten".
6 Platten 100kg 100cm mal 62,5cm mal 4cm kosten so um 30 Euro.

[inayat]

Originally Posted by jaykay

Hi Guys.............long time reader, rarely a poster etc....oops.

Question; I have read, I think, all the threads on bass-trapping but don't see an answer to this anywhere.

I am having a serious problem hunting down a suitable material to put in my bass-traps. I know a lot of you have access to some semi-rigid material like Cornings 703 or Rockwool RW3 but it just doesn't exist here in Germany!! The people at Rockwool are most unhelpful (unknowledgeable) about the specifications of their own products and the only material I can find (not Rockwool) costs around 460€ for a pack of 18x40mm sheets.

Is there an alternative to be found in Germany? If so, can someone here please tell me. I am at my wits end and really want my room to be finished without having to spend 1000€+ on just the innards of the traps.

Thanks

I buy Rockwool "Sonorock" in normal "Baumarkt"s (for example: "Hornbach"). They do have Rockwool and Isover. "Obi" has Rockwool and Knauf. "Bauhaus" has Rockwool and Isover.

[Edi Konfetti]

These might be interesting as well:

Building absorbers with Homatherm FlexCL

my insprirations for DIY basstrap builders


HOMATHERM:*Beschreibung

Schallabsorptionsgrad FlexCL
http://www.homatherm.com/fileadmin/m...rad_flexcl.pdf

Längenbezogener Strömungswiderstand
http://www.homatherm.com/fileadmin/m...gsw_flexcl.pdf

[Ydope]

Information in German on German products.

Sammelthread - Dämmwollpreise
Sammelthread - Strömungswiderstand verschiedener Dämmwollen

[hisbluness]

FlexCL looks pretty interessting for broadband.

Im wondering what the best material for covering all walls is. I'll build a frame all around the room and thought about using normal rockwool (thermarock?), probably 10-12cm. Adding bassabsorbers in all corners, again, I have no idea what the best material for that might be.

So at the moment I think flexCL might be interessting for covering the walls, and rockwool/something else for corner bass traps. Any suggestions?

And, another question Im quite concerned about: If I use rockwool, is covering it just with fabric enough to prevent fiber from getting through (because of all the healthrisk etc etc)

[TheSweetener]

Alternativ könnte Basotect interessant sein. Is zwar teurer aber einfacher zu verkleiden als diese blöde Wolle.

Schaumstoff, Schaumstoffe, Basotect und Akustik-Schallschutz und Noppenschaumstoff vom Profi.

Gruß!

[jaykay]

Cool, Danke für den Hinweis. Die Homatherm flexCL sehen aus wie gute Produkte und haben auch einen guten Preis. 16,35€ + MwSt pro Quadratmeter und kommt in der Grösse 1200x625mm und in der Dicke von 30mm bis 180mm.

Cool, thanks a lot for all the info. The Homatherm flexCL looks like a good product and is at a good price also. 16,35€ + tax per square meter and you can get it in 100mm thick sheets, 1200x625mm.

[Edi Konfetti]

Gern gescen.
Mich interessiert, woher Du die Preise hast. Hast Du einen guten Händler für FlexCL in Berlin finden können? Das wäre fein.

Your welcome.
I'd like to find out about a good dealer for FlexCL in Berlin. Have you managed to find one? That would be great.

[Ydope]

Hallo,

centralized buying in Berlin?

Eventuell wollt ihr euch hier einklinken:
poröse Absorber
Wir sind bisher 3-4 Leute in Berlin, die an Sammelbestellung interessiert sind.

Gruß

[jaykay]

Hallo,

In Berlin gibts:

Schulz & Co. NaturBauStoffe in Berlin OHG Lehmbaustoffe, Dämmstoffe, Farben, Holz, Bauberatung

Eintrag Nr.: BR000975
D-10997 Berlin-Kreuzberg, Schlesische Str. 38
Telefon: 030/61 70 25 76
Telefax: 030/61 17 00 9

[JC.]

caution folks!

As far as I know FlexCL is too dense for 4" (10cm) + thick absorber, the gas flow resistance is too high. It's perfect for 1" (5cm) first reflextion panels.

[jaykay]

As far as I'm aware, Ethan suggests anything from 48kg/m3 to 96kg/m3. I may have missinterpreted his article though:

Acoustic Treatment and Design for Recording Studios and Listening Rooms

I'm sure there must be someone out there that has used this and can tell us...

...

[Ydope]

Originally Posted by JC.

caution folks!

As far as I know FlexCL is too dense for 4" (10cm) + thick absorber, the gas flow resistance is too high. It's perfect for 1" (5cm) first reflextion panels.

There is no empirical data supporting the claim that any porous material starts reflecting low frequencies as you make it thicker and thicker.

[avare]

Originally Posted by Ydope

There is no empirical data supporting the claim that any porous material starts reflecting low frequencies as you make it thicker and thicker.

Bob's Fantastic Absorption page

Have a look at 705, in 3" and 4" densities. As it gets thicker, it starts to reflect low frequencies.

Andre

[brutze]

Hi there,

I'm in Berlin.
I bought sheets of 5cm thick "Brandschutzplatten"
"Protect BSP50"
1200x600mm
from...
Hauptsitz Berlin: HOBA Baustoffhandel GmbH

artikelnummer: 0244130001
They dumped about 70 or 80 sheets of it outside the door of my studio last february at 7am.. BUILDERS!

I doubled it up to 10cm thick in readytraps bags.
The important thing was that the density "Rohdichte" is greater than 50Kg/m3. (Kilo pro cubikmeter).

It works. My room is good for recording and mixing. Very Dry though.

Good Luck.

[jaykay]

Originally Posted by Victor_Stoian

from an acoustics point of view the gas flow resistance is way more important than the density.
The flexCLs density is 70kg/m³ and gas flow resistance is 43000 to 76000 rayls/m.
Another material called Thermoflex has 45kg/m³ but the gas flow resistance is only 5000 rayls/m.

How did you find out the gas flow resistance? I can't find this data anywhere, either way, thanks for doing the calculations!

...

[duvalle]

Originally Posted by TheSweetener

Alternativ könnte Basotect interessant sein. Is zwar teurer aber einfacher zu verkleiden als diese blöde Wolle.Gruß!

konnte auch nix vergleichbares zu Owens Corning 705 finden und hab dann basotect genommen.
funktioniert gut, war aber teuer ...
großer vorteil: bastotect ist nicht/schwer entflammbar.

[elmolemon]

Has anyone used Rockwool Sonorock for their bass-traps?

It has a flow resistance (?? german: längenbezogener Strömungswiderstand) of r ≥7 kPa · s/m² and i plan to build my basstraps 10" (=25cm) deep.

Fine?

[Airwaves]

Wie ist das denn mit dem Rockwool bezüglich dem Einatmen von kleinsten Partikeln? Will mir auch Bassfallen bauen und der wichtigste Punkt ist, dass es keine gesundheitlichen Bedenken geben darf.
Eine anscheinend unbedenkliche Alternative wäre für mich eventuell Thermohanf...hat da schon jemand Erfahrung mit?

[elmolemon]

Hier drei Links zum Thema:

rockwool

The Comparative Safety of Rockwool, Fiberglass, and Organic Fibers (a review)

Exposing the Myths of Fiberglass - Folks, People have heard all kinds of stories about fiberglass and it's hazzards. It has been stated: [quote:2c917e7e71] I mean that cutting fiberglass can be a bit of a health hazard because the fibers, which are a

Aber ich glaube ich pack das Zeug trotzdem in dünne Malerfolie ein..




Aber hat denn jetzt irgendjemand Rockwool Sonorock verwendet?

[Northward]

Originally Posted by JC.

caution folks!

As far as I know FlexCL is too dense for 4" (10cm) + thick absorber, the gas flow resistance is too high. It's perfect for 1" (5cm) first reflextion panels.

We use it all the time for the past 3-4 years in VERY thick, complex systems. It's absolutely great...

Of course, YMMV.

[steffenb]

Originally Posted by elmolemon

Has anyone used Rockwool Sonorock for their bass-traps?

It has a flow resistance (?? german: längenbezogener Strömungswiderstand) of r ≥7 kPa · s/m² and i plan to build my basstraps 10" (=25cm) deep.

Fine?

i would also be interested in some information from people who
have used this material...

[_rd]

I am going to build 16 bass traps using homatherm flexCL soon.

[G. E.]

Originally Posted by Airwaves

... Eine anscheinend unbedenkliche Alternative wäre für mich eventuell Thermohanf...hat da schon jemand Erfahrung mit?

I've been using Isover Thermohanf for years now building about 45 pieces of 120x60x20cm^3 [~4'x2'x8"] wideband-aborbers for various project-studios. I've experienced substantial absorption down to 125Hz (measuring RT60) when mounted on a wall, roll-off starts below 250Hz, all that even lower with an additional air-gap between absorber and wall! Thermohanf is easy to handle with a riffled knife, no dangerous particles at all, it has a light sweetish smell for some weeks. Absorber flow resistancy is given at > 6 kPas/m^2 [6.000 raysl/m] which qualifies especially for deep aborbers! Recommended... I've also used Thermohanf for absorbers on the back of some mobile diffusors.

[Airwaves]

Sounds good to me And the picture of the mobile diffusor with the absorber on the back is fantastic. Congratulations!

Thermohanf seems to be a good solution...good to handle (cutting with knife), good price, no problems with little particles in the air

[chris_m]

I didnt have luck finding a dealer for flexCL yet, i spend 3-4 hours with google and on the phone yesterday
If anyone knows a dealer in NRW i'd be greatful for a hint