My finished studio.. HELP WITH MY MIXING SPACE!!!

[skamaniac]

Ok, so i managed to fit my studio into the only room I have in my condo.. Which is very small. As you seen in the picture, the space I am mixing in is up next to the wall.. Can someone lead me down the correct road for treating this mixing space to get some kind of decent sound.. All help would be greatly appreciated!

Aaron

[tchristen]

Try to put diffusion if you can on the back wall and on the ceiling may help as well.. try and make your diffusion as broadband as possible and use some bass trapping if possible in the corners..

I would try and stick away from using more absorption than you have to as well, because it will make the room a lot more smaller and dead than it already is, diffusion will make it sound larger.

One technique in treating a mixing area is a live end dead end, but it looks like the wall behind your speakers is already dead with what you have going on..or is that a reflective surface?

[ignatius]

that's a tight spot!

you could try rotating your set up 90 degrees so it isn't firing right at the wall. you are going to have issues no matter what you do but i bet if you tinker w/it some you can find something workable. having your monitors on the short wall is usually the way to go though.

you should check out this site for more info than most people need:

Recording Studio Design :: Index

[bpape]

In a room that small, it's all about a ton of broadband absorbtion. The smaller the room, the more broadband you need proportionately. In that room, you're going to have to kill pretty much everything - corners, over your head, behind you, etc. Get as many corners as you can and do the others at least 4" thick - 6" is better.

Bryan

[EricF]

As someone who is also crammed into a small corner of a condo, I can sympathize with your challenge. I just completed installing a bunch of OC703-loaded panels in my space. The difference for mixing is significant. The stereo image is much more precise due to a huge reduction in reflections, and the bass response is deeper and much better defined. Even my wife's inexperienced (and usually uninterested) ears noticed the difference.

[vibralux]

Diffusion in such a small room tutt I recently upgraded my 3x4 meters room and I have 15 mini traps there. I was thinking about putting their diffusor on the back wall in that room (which is a lot larger then Yours) and guys from Real Traps adviced agains that idea.

Like said above- looots of bass trapping and broadband.

Good luck

M

[tchristen]

Originally Posted by vibralux

Diffusion in such a small room tutt

M

I have never been told that before, I'm just curious what your reasoning is for saying that, no disrespect of course

[vibralux]

Well, I am no expert in this matter- I am just repeating what people, who I think are experts, told me- people from Real Traps. Scott from Real Traps suggested that I would benefit far more from bass and HF trapping then from putting a Diffusor on my back wall. If You look closely at their diffusor description, You will see that there should be a certain amount of distance between a listener and a diffusor -I am talking specifically about Real Traps Diffusor here. I dont know why- to be honest - I dont care- I am a musician, not am engineer. So far their advice worked great, so I thought I share.
Probably thats not the case with all diffusors so sorry for a bit of generalization.

cheers

M

[Glenn Kuras]

In a room that size I would not even think about diffusion. tutt
Glenn

[vibralux]

See? Told ya

cheers

M

[gainstages]

i spent a little time in a space not much bigger than that. the problem is that just about every square inch of wall between the speakers and the back wall is a first reflection point in a room that small. while 4 or 6 inch thick treatments will help, being realistic here, that takes up more of your room than you can probably afford. as much as good broadband panels are better than foam, i'd probably recommend 2" thick foam due to the space concerns. put a little on each side of the room at monitor/ear level. on the space behind your head i'd put a section of foam also - making sure you go a little above, below and too the side of where your head normally is. if you can squeeze in a bass trap, that would help - because of the size of your room, you might want to try trapping the corner between the back wall and ceiling horizontally, as it will take up less of the usable space in the room. for the bass trap, if you can get a broadband panel that would be better than foam.

it looks like your laptop may be interfering with the sound waves from your right speaker. this could also be throwing off your stereo image and eq.

finally, if all else fails, get a good set of headphones and refer to them often.

good luck

[maestro]

my room is 12.75 feet x 14.66ft with an 8ft ceiling. i was going to trap all 4 corners with mondo traps, have an Reflection free zone but put 3 diffusors on the back wall. Bad idea? i will be tracking and recording in the room.also use it for practise on my grand piano and wouldn't like it too dead

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by maestro

my room is 12.75 feet x 14.66ft with an 8ft ceiling. i was going to trap all 4 corners with mondo traps, have an Reflection free zone but put 3 diffusors on the back wall. Bad idea? i will be tracking and recording in the room.also use it for practise on my grand piano and wouldn't like it too dead

If I wanted diffusion back there I would put 1 4" to 6" panel on the back wall and put diffusion around that. Or put the diffusion on the back 1/3 of the side walls behind you.

See the following page to see what I am referring too.

GIK Acoustics: Room Setup

Glenn

[maestro]

so you are saying i should put a diffusor each side of bass trap on back wall.as you can see from the diagram i don't have the option of putting diffusion on any side walls because of my mixing position at the piano

i have attached a pdf of my sketchup plan.the distance from window to door is 14.66 feet. i had been discussing with Ethan and i have to send him photo when i have all the gear positioned.

i wish my room was bigger

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by maestro

so you are saying i should put a diffusor each side of bass trap on back wall.as you can see from the diagram i don't have the option of putting diffusion on any side walls because of my mixing position at the piano

i have attached a pdf of my sketchup plan.the distance from window to door is 14.66 feet. i had been discussing with Ethan and i have to send him photo when i have all the gear positioned.

i wish my room was bigger

I don't see any file attached.

Glenn

[maestro]

sorry about that. here is the attachment

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by maestro

sorry about that. here is the attachment

Got it, I woud replace the center diffusor with a THICK panel. One thing I see is only 3 panels straddling corners which really is not enough at all. If you are buying from Ethan you may want to go over this with him.

Glenn

[maestro]

Thanks for the advice Glenn.

Ethan has been very helpful. As soon as i have the room set up i will be emailing some photos to him.

Because the way the doors are designed in the room i don't think it is possible to fill the 4th corner.

By the way its great to see people in the same business sharing great knowledge in the forum. I have learned so much from Gearslutz over the last few years.

Have i the room layout correct overall? I know that i am mixing in the shorter end of the room

[vibralux]

That what I was told to do byt Scott. I put a MiniTrap HF instead of their Diffusor and it world great for me.

PEace

M

P.S As for the door- corner - could'nt You squeeze a bass trap there, standing vertical, pararell to wall? Thats what I did - and I had even less space, judging from the proportions on Your drawing.

[Glenn Kuras]

[QUOTE][Because the way the doors are designed in the room i don't think it is possible to fill the 4th corner.
/QUOTE]

How about panels floor to ceiling or get one of these from him.



or straddle ceiling to wall areas along the front, back or side walls.

By the way its great to see people in the same business sharing great knowledge in the forum. I have learned so much from Gearslutz over the last few years.

We both feel as education of acoustics out weigh bickering.

Glenn

[maestro]

I think the mondo trap i had in the diagram beside the door (on the back wall) was my attempt at trapping in that particular corner.

"One of these?" - Do you mean the tri-corner? I don't think that will fit at the door at the corner either top or bottom.

I probably could stradde the ceiling to wall at the same back wall. There isn't much room between the top of the doors and the ceiling. Perhaps i can just use one of the doors to access the room and put a mondo trap on a stand in that corner


"We both feel as education of acoustics out weigh bickering"
Great attitude. I think that should apply to everything.

Do you think i can mix and track well in this particular room with such treatment?

[Glenn Kuras]

"One of these?" - Do you mean the tri-corner? I don't think that will fit at the door at the corner either top or bottom.

Yes the Tri-Corner thing and I was saying for all the corners. Not just one of them.

Do you think i can mix and track well in this particular room with such treatment?

I think it is a good start, but like I said before you will want more bass trapping in that room.

Glenn

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by maestro

Do you think i can mix and track well in this particular room with such treatment?

Of course!

In the end, what matters most is having as much bass trapping as possible.

--Ethan

[maestro]

and do you think the addition of 1 or 2 diffusors to the 'perfect' amount of bass trapping would add enough sense of 'live' to my room? i would really love to record classical piano in the room without having to add artificial reverb.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by maestro

and do you think the addition of 1 or 2 diffusors to the 'perfect' amount of bass trapping would add enough sense of 'live' to my room? i would really love to record classical piano in the room without having to add artificial reverb.

In a 12.75 feet x 14.66ft with an 8ft ceilings? I think you can get the room to sound very good, but I would think you would still be adding artificial reverb. But then again maybe not for somethings.

Glenn

[maestro]

Very good would be great. Since i practice classical piano in it i wouldn't like it to be too dead sounding. Absorbing the sound of 6ft 6" Grand Piano is good though. Its a Kawai piano and it can be quite bright sounding

[robmix]

Personally, in a room that small I'd kill that vocal booth and go for the all-in-one-room approach. Then follow Ethan and Glen's suggestions for trapping.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by maestro

Very good would be great. Since i practice classical piano in it i wouldn't like it to be too dead sounding. Absorbing the sound of 6ft 6" Grand Piano is good though. Its a Kawai piano and it can be quite bright sounding

Looking at your PDF again I would think about maybe putting some panels behind the monitors to help with any SBIR (Learn what is SBIR (Speaker Boundary Interface Response).) you may get from the back of the monitors. Seems like they are pretty close to the wall.

glenn

[maestro]

That wasn't a vocal booth. It was my RFZ, probably my lack of sketchup skills.

If i move the monitors too far back from the wall then my 38% position will probably be lost. How far back from the wall should the monitors be?

Will my choice of desk for holding all my equipment affect acoustics? i'd love an Argosy. Seem pretty pricey though