what to buy for treating my room

[heisleyamor]

I want to buy some things to treat my room, but on a budget. Unless there are Auralex pads that are cheaper...And also, how do I know where to put them? I'm recording in a basement with concrete walls over break and 8' ceiling with rafters until Januaray 14th. But I'm going to be recording a lot from now until then. After that I will be in a finished attic. I'm just curious about some items that would improve the sound of my drums in my room and make my monitors sound better. Let me know...thank you

[jwl]

heisleyamor, I think given that you'll be moving around a lot, treatments on stands make sense for you. This way you can move the stands easily, take them with you when you go to different rooms.

There are definitely strategies you can employ to make any room sound better. Part of what you will want to do depends on your needs, whether it is for recording or mixing, but the basics are the same. The first is you will want to add bass trapping to the room, in order to even out the bass response of the room. This is most easily accomplished by adding bass traps to the room corners, as many as you can manage, including the wall/ceiling corners.

You will also want to control the reflections in a room: if you are mixing you will want to create a Reflection-Free Zone at the mix position; if you are recording you will want to control how sound is reflecting into the microphones (the details depend on the sound you are looking for). For most small rooms, I think any reflected sound in the mics detracts from the sound, unless you are looking for a special effect. Absorbers on stands and/or gobos make sense, because they can be moved around depending on what you need in that moment.

For more details I will point you to the videos page on the realtraps site, as well as the following articles:
How To Set Up A Room
Acoustics: Facts & Fiction
Creating a Reflection-Free Zone

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by heisleyamor

I want to buy some things to treat my room, but on a budget. Unless there are Auralex pads that are cheaper...And also, how do I know where to put them? I'm recording in a basement with concrete walls over break and 8' ceiling with rafters until Januaray 14th. But I'm going to be recording a lot from now until then. After that I will be in a finished attic. I'm just curious about some items that would improve the sound of my drums in my room and make my monitors sound better. Let me know...thank you

You got some pretty good points from JWL and just to add
For recording drums in a small room like yours I would build or buy panels made of rigid fiberglass or mineral wool and place the above the drum set. This will help with the NASTY slap back you will get from the ceiling into the over head mics.

Good luck on the room and please let us know if you have any other questions we can help you with.

Glenn

[heisleyamor]

there is a picture of my room (finished attic) that I record in most of the time...the picture is taken pretty much right to the left of where the drums go...It's a pretty low ceiling but at least the ceilings aren't all parallell to the ground. Any suggestions?

[heisleyamor]

here is an attachment if the last picture didn't work.

[Chris Parsons]

can you get rid of the carpet? Some 703 or 705 panels in the corners (wall/wall and wall/floor) would do wonders too.

[seaneldon]

First:
That room has an AWESOME vibe!!!! I'd love to record something in there regardless of what it sounds like. I'm willing to bet I'd perform way better in there than I would in some Auralex booth. Don't uglify that room with Auralex.

Second:
Call Glenn Kuras. His stuff works.

[tINY]

Drums are going to be tough to record in there. Some PZMs on the ceiling may work better than traditional methods.




-tINY

[bpape]

That room looks like it has a lot of possibilities. I'd agree on the 'no foam' thing. Mineral wool or rigid fiberglass will be much more effective over a broader range and if you're at all handy, can cost you less.

For the floor, I'd invest in a bit of plywood or some wood flooring to lay down when doing live work. Pull it up to deaden things a bit more when mixing.

If you can post an overhead sketch of the space with some dimensions, it would be a lot easier to help you get things planned out well.

Bryan

[SRS]

Rip out the carpet, put in hardwood. Use a throw rug for the drum kit. Put in some bass trapping in the corners and let er rip. Looks like a killer room. I love the non-parallel walls and ceiling. I would love to track drums in that room. The vibe is definitely there. Sweet looking room for sure!

[jwl]

I agree that a hardwood floor with throw rugs would look great in that room, but bpape is right. You can just use sheets of plywood or something to put down over the carpet while tracking. Spend $$$ replacing the floor *after* you have acoustic treatments in the room, that's far more important.

The ceiling is cool, too, not just in looks but the nonparallelness of it is good for sound.

Apart from that, standard rules apply, bass trapping in the corners, make a RFZ at your mix position if you'll be mixing in there.

I still think bass traps on stands make loads of sense in that room, though I agree with Glenn some traps mounted in intelligent places on the ceiling make sense.

[JimThompson]

529 Pro Audio and everyone having trouble hanging Auralex,

Use these: Buying Partners: From $3.58 - Picture Hanging Strips MMM 17202 MMM17202 MMM 17201OF

They work great! They have never fallen off the walls and don't leave marks.
What I did was cut small bookmark sized strips of metal (or any rigid material) and permanently glued them (using Auralex Tube Tak) to the back of the foam (1 in each corner).
Then attach the 3M to the metal and slap it on the wall.
Works great! They should really advertise these strips instead of those velcro things.
I currently have used it on the 3" foam panels, the SonoColumn Bass Traps, and I have T'Fusors hanging from my ceiling.

-Jim

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by heisleyamor

there is a picture of my room (finished attic) that I record in most of the time

That's a nice room! And it's large enough to get good results. You're already getting the right advice from the experts, so I'll add only a little.

I agree that it's not necessary to rip out the carpet. Home Depot sells 2 by 4 foot pre-cut Masonite panels that can be laid on top of the carpet, then stacked against the wall or put in a closet when not needed. They're cheap, so you can buy 20 of them and have a lot of flexibility. Yes, you could rip out the carpet and get throw rugs for when you want carpet. But you might as well leave the carpet and put the savings into treating the room which is what you need the most.

--Ethan

[Antibalas HiFi]

Out of ignorance I ask: what's wrong with having carpeted flooring? My guess is that it makes the room sound dead, and takes away too many highs. Should I consider masonite panels for my writing room? I rarely track but occasionally my mixes are the final mix, so room sound is of upmost importance!

Thanks!

[Glenn Kuras]

It does eat up a lot of the high end but if you have carpet I would just leave it. If you don't then use hardwoods and use throw rugs.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Antibalas HiFi

what's wrong with having carpeted flooring?

There's nothing wrong with that in some situations and rooms sizes. The text below is from my Acoustics FAQ.

--Ethan

HARD FLOOR, SOFT CEILING

The following is from an exchange that took place in the rec.audio.pro newsgroup in May, 2003:

Bill Ruys asked: Why it is recommended to have bare (un-carpeted) floors in the studio? One web site I visited mentioned that a bare floor was a prerequisite for the room design with diffusors and absorbers on the ceiling, but didn't say why. I'm trying to understand the principal, rather than following blindly.

Paul Stamler: Carpet typically absorbs high frequencies and some midrange, but does nothing for bass and lower midrange. Using carpet as an acoustic treatment, in most rooms, results in a room that is dull and boomy. Most of the time you need a thicker absorber such as 4-inch or, better, 6-inch fiberglass, or acoustic tile, and you can't walk around on either of those. Hence the general recommendation that you avoid carpet on the floor and use broadband absorbers elsewhere.

Lee Liebner: the human ear is accustomed to determining spatial references from reflections off of side walls and floor, and a low ceiling would only confuse the brain with more early reflections it doesn't need. Everywhere you go, the floor is always the same distance away from you, so it's a reference that your brain can always relate to.

John Noll: Reasons for having wood floors: they look good, equipment can be rolled easily, spills can be cleaned up easily, provide a bright sound if needed, sound can be deadened with area rugs.

Ethan Winer: In a studio room, versus a control room, a reflective floor is a great way to get a nice sense of ambience when recording acoustic instruments. Notice I said reflective, not wood, since linoleum and other materials are less expensive than wood yet sound the same. When you record an acoustic guitar or clarinet or whatever, slight reflections off the floor give the illusion of "being right there in the room" on the recording. It's more difficult to use a ceiling for ambience - especially in a typical home studio with low ceilings - because the mikes are too close to the ceiling when miking from above. And that proximity creates comb filtering which can yield a hollow sound. So with a hard floor surface you can get ambience, and with full absorption on the ceiling you can put the mike above the instrument, very close to the ceiling, without getting comb filtering.

Dave Wallingford: I've always preferred wood floors for a few reasons: 1) It's easier to move stuff around, 2) You can always get area rugs if you need them, And the main reason: 3) Pianos sound like crap on carpet.



________________
The Acoustic Treatment Experts

[Antibalas HiFi]

good to know - thanks guys.