Frameless bass traps with rigid fiberglass?

[enroper]

I've posted this around some other forums with luke warm responses. ( one even turned into a flame session between some industry guys)

Anyway, has anybody seen any good plans for a frameless bass trap using rigid fiberglass? I live in an apartment so building anything with wood, as well as hanging them, would be a disaster.

Also, I have one idea, but does anybody know if you can "fasten" two 2" pieces together, with some sort of screw? I saw a picture of it done with rockwool, but would that work on fiberglass? What type of screws would you use to fasten those things together....

[lowfreq33]

Use cardboard for a frame, cover it with fabric.

[jwl]

You could use spray adhesive, preferably the stronger 3M Scotch super 90 stuff. This will both hold the 2" panels together, as well as hold the fabric to the trap. Just wrap the trap all the way around with the cloth. (I'm assuming you mean stacking 2 - 2" panels together to make a single 4" thick panel).

Not the ideal solution, but it would work. In some ways, it will actually be a more effective absorber, because any wood around the frame will reduce the amount of absorption happening by a tiny bit. Just don't bump it or move it around too much. Rigid fiberglass is somewhat rigid, but it's nowhere near as rigid as wood or metal.

Obviously you could also get some prebuilt panels, these would be much simpler and would look better than what you're describing. Then when you move, you can take them with you.

[lowfreq33]

You do know you can buy 703 in 4" thicknesses, right?

[xmostynx]

fiberglass is stronger than rockwool. rockwool is very flimsy.

its like 1/2 the cost as well.

and why don't you look around for those metal frames they use instead of 2x4s?

and either way you look at it your gonna need to sink in some eye bolts in the wall.
easily fixed with some filler and a sponge.

or invite your landlord over, if its not a company....and show him what you wanna do. mine was blown away. and actually helped me hang ceiling panels.


good luck!

[SRR]

Owens Corning 703, Roxul Mineral Wool, and Other Acoustic Materials

I used a case of 6, of the Rockboard 60, for two bass traps, each being 3x2", for a 6" trap. I just covered it in fabric from walmart and the total was well under $90, in total.

Here is a pic (they are the funny colored things in the corners, goes well with lava lamps):




It is just leaned against the corner, it has better absorption then 703 or 705 of the same 6" thickness, and much cheaper. We used iron on fabric glue to make the fabric look a little tight, you aren't gonna go around carrying it by the fabric as the glue would let go real easy, but it was simple and CHEAP.

[enroper]

Originally Posted by SRR

It is just leaned against the corner, it has better absorption then 703 or 705 of the same 6" thickness, and much cheaper. We used iron on fabric glue to make the fabric look a little tight, you aren't gonna go around carrying it by the fabric as the glue would let go real easy, but it was simple and CHEAP.

But shouldn't they be hung in the corners, rather than just sitting on the bottom....?

[PinkHumpy]

I did my owens corning 703 frameless. If I could do it again I would find/make some angle pieces for the corners to make it look cleaner.

Brendan Brennan's Pink Humpy Bass Traps

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by enroper

But shouldn't they be hung in the corners, rather than just sitting on the bottom....?

Actually the bottom corner is a tri-corner which is going to pick up more bass. So leaving it on the floor is not all that bad of a idea.

Glenn

[BudgetMC]

When we say "rigid fiberglass" are we talking about the heavy styrofoam-like insulation stuff (often faced with a thin paper sheet on each side), or are we talking about compressed fiberglass stuff like 703 and 706? I've always wondered what the sonic effect of the heavy rigid styrofoam stuff might have.

[Fran Guidry]

I built mine frameless. Glued 2 2" thicknesses together (no 4" available at the time), wrapped with burlap, and glued that up. They fit the 8' room height perfectly, so they were self installing, just jam two panels into each corner straddling the corner. Or jam them floor to ceiling on a flat wall, with a crude (cardboard box) spacer behind.

The ones on the ceiling required actual hardware to hold in place <grin>.

This $200 worth of fiberglass and burlap did more for my recordings than any $2000 gear upgrade.

Fran

[enroper]

Originally Posted by BudgetMC

When we say "rigid fiberglass" are we talking about the heavy styrofoam-like insulation stuff (often faced with a thin paper sheet on each side), or are we talking about compressed fiberglass stuff like 703 and 706? I've always wondered what the sonic effect of the heavy rigid styrofoam stuff might have.

Stuff like OC 703

[jwl]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

This $200 worth of fiberglass and burlap did more for my recordings than any $2000 gear upgrade.

Amen, brother! Testify!

[Acoustic Cloud]

Originally Posted by jwl

Amen, brother! Testify!

thumbsupthumbsup

[enroper]

When we talk about rigid fiberglass, does anybody thing its "rigid" enough to have some hanging wire threaded into it?

For example, in the picture attached I'm envisioning threading it around the front to the back to make a loop that can then be hung.

Would the fiberglass present too much of its own weight, and rip this hanging wire straight out of it?

[chetatkinsdiet]

I have a few pieces of 2" left over from my bass traps I recently built. I cut thin plywood backs and simply laid the glass panels (2x4) on them. I wrapped burlap over them and stapled it to the backs. I haven't hung them yet...still deciding where/how. I think they'll hold up well as long as they aren't in a spot that'll get bumped.

m

[Acoustic Cloud]

Originally Posted by enroper

When we talk about rigid fiberglass, does anybody thing its "rigid" enough to have some hanging wire threaded into it?

For example, in the picture attached I'm envisioning threading it around the front to the back to make a loop that can then be hung.

Would the fiberglass present too much of its own weight, and rip this hanging wire straight out of it?

4 of my 10 703 traps are frameless. I bolted kick drum lugs thru them with big silver dollar size washers, and used bailing wire to hang them, it works good!

[AkustikArkitekt]

How do you measure the results? Which gear, software, mics, etc?
I use the DIRAC software, from Bruel & Kjaer, with a bluetube pre-amp and a cardiod newman mic.

[nightmode]

the page is down right now, but these folks people premade bags to fit rigid fiberglass, www.readyacoustics.com

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by AkustikArkitekt

How do you measure the results? Which gear, software, mics, etc?

See this article:

RealTraps - Optimizing Acoustic Treatment using ETF

You can also do a quick 'n' dirty test with test tones:

RealTraps - Test Tone CD

But real room measuring software is much better, as explained in the first link.

--Ethan

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by nightmode

these folks people premade bags to fit rigid fiberglass

If you're looking to do this as economically as possible, here's a much better deal on sacks for fiberglass:

Audimute Panel Fabric Cover - Audimute Soundproofing

--Ethan

[darjama]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

If you're looking to do this as economically as possible, here's a much better deal on sacks for fiberglass:

Audimute Panel Fabric Cover - Audimute Soundproofing

--Ethan

Ethan, have you seen their cotton panels? what do you think of them? A bit pricey, but I like the green aspect. The seem to test well.

[Ethan Winer]

I haven't had a chance to look yet, but if the specs seem good they're probably fine. I mentioned their bags only because it seemed appropriate in this context.

--Ethan

[jwl]

Can you post a direct link to the cotton panels? I took a look around the site and didn't see them in any prominent place.

Cotton can be used successfully in acoustic treatment; I've used the Ultratouch cotton before for absorbers and gobos with great results. The Ultratouch specs out really well and is quite affordable compared to rockwool or 703.

So yes, without seeing specs there is a good chance it works fairly well.

[bpape]

If you want a really rigid frameless panel, using OC705 instead of 703 works great. It's more expensive by about double but it's rigid enough to hold a wrap and stay in shape nicely when you pull the cloth tight.

Bryan

[darjama]

Originally Posted by jwl

Can you post a direct link to the cotton panels? I took a look around the site and didn't see them in any prominent place.

Her you go:
Audimute Panel - Winter White - Audimute Soundproofing

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by darjama

Her you go:
Audimute Panel - Winter White - Audimute Soundproofing

Am I reading that right? $35.00 for a 2" piece? That is $65.00 for 4" which you can get a pre built panel which will absorb better, look better and so on..

Nothing against that stuff but seems a little over priced for DYI..

Glenn

[darjama]

Originally Posted by Glenn Kuras

Am I reading that right? $35.00 for a 2" piece? That is $65.00 for 4" which you can get a pre built panel which will absorb better, look better and so on..

Nothing against that stuff but seems a little over priced for DYI..

Glenn

Well, they're on sale for $25 each if you buy more than 4, but yeah, they're more expensive than raw OC703. Of course you could mount these without a covering an not feel itchy, and they're recycled so you can feel that smug sense of self satisfaction that's got to be worth a few bucks per panel.

Don't know that a prebuilt panel with rockwool or 703 would absorb better, according to their site they've got a pretty good absorption coefficients, better than 703, which I believe is better than the rockwool that's used in the budget traps.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by darjama

Well, they're on sale for $25 each if you buy more than 4, but yeah, they're more expensive than raw OC703. Of course you could mount these without a covering an not feel itchy, and they're recycled so you can feel that smug sense of self satisfaction that's got to be worth a few bucks per panel.

Don't know that a prebuilt panel with rockwool or 703 would absorb better, according to their site they've got a pretty good absorption coefficients, better than 703, which I believe is better than the rockwool that's used in the budget traps.

Compare our GIK 244 numbers here GIK Acoustic Panels are tested and certified.

That is a premade panel.
If it makes you have that smug feeling the fabric we use is recycled on the GOM.

Glenn

[jwl]

Yeah, that does seem a bit pricey. Does it include shipping? This stuff is bulky and expensive to ship, so check that out too....

It seems like, if you want to DIY and go green, that the Ultratouch cotton would be much cheaper, particularly if you can find a dealer in your area. Performance should be the same, and Ultratouch comes in 5.5" and 3.5" thicknesses....