Acoustic Treatment for small control room

[TheBeast]

Hey all

This is my first post and I hope somebody can give me some idea of what to do. I've searched and read a lot of posts but I haven't seen anything that applies to my specific situation.

I have a very, very small control room (6' x 9') and I'd like to do all I can to get a good sound out of my HR824's. I have access to a bunch of 4 pound Mineral Wool for a pretty good price here in Minesota, but the supplier told me that 703 is much more common for sound absorbtion but it's 3 times as expensive. I plan on stacking the back corners of the wall with triangle traps, and then using 4'x2'x4" thick traps to form a 1/4 circle around my monitors, much like this guy did.

Steven P. Helm: DIY Bass Traps

What do I do?

[davet]

Begin here: RealTraps - Home

DaveT

[TheBeast]

Hmm... Well that's definately a lot of good info. Unfortunately I have to have my room setup for the monitors to face the short wall due to space constraint. There's a few metal pipes on the ceiling that I think could be a problem, and the walls of the room are smewhat staggered (not a perfect rectangular room) I know my room isn't ideal, but will Mineral Wool be alright for my application, or should I splurge on the 703? Is it true that the room will sound dead and not accurately absorb bass frequencies like the realtraps site suggests?

[davet]

Since your room is so small it's going to give you trouble. I put Real Traps in all four corners of my room (21x10x8) and that helped. I also have 2" 703 absorbers hanging from the ceiling and behind my monitors. It all helps, but I've noticed that when I leave the door to my studio open to the hallway in my house I get get less standing wave issues.

You should also learn to monitor at very low volumes to reduce standing waves.

You really should ask Ethan Winer at real traps for his advice. He's a good guy.

DaveT

[Chris Kress]

Originally Posted by TheBeast

Hey all, What do I do?

The cubic volume of your room won't allow for even a workable listening situation. Attempts at acoustic treatment will be futile. You might try light acoustic treatment to cure any standing waves.. I am not being snotty here, my first studio control room wasn't much bigger. If I were you, I would be using headphones and auratones.. Sorry for the bad news...

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by TheBeast

What do I do?

Mineral wool is fine. It's not as nice to work with as rigid fiberglass, and it sags so you need a frame, but acoustically it's just as good.

What you need is as many four-inch thick bass traps as you can possibly manage. You can make a room like that suitable for mixing, but you'll need to line every corner with bass traps, including wall-ceiling corners and even a few wall-floor corners if possible. If you cover the entire rear wall behind you with four or more inches thick, all the better. If you do all of that, you will take this room from terrible to "not too bad at all."

--Ethan

[Acoustic Cloud]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

What you need is as many four-inch thick bass traps as you can possibly manage. You can make a room like that suitable for mixing, but you'll need to line every corner with bass traps, including wall-ceiling corners and even a few wall-floor corners if possible.
--Ethan

thumbsupthumbsup

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by TheBeast

Hey all

This is my first post and I hope somebody can give me some idea of what to do. I've searched and read a lot of posts but I haven't seen anything that applies to my specific situation.

I have a very, very small control room (6' x 9') and I'd like to do all I can to get a good sound out of my HR824's. I have access to a bunch of 4 pound Mineral Wool for a pretty good price here in Minesota, but the supplier told me that 703 is much more common for sound absorbtion but it's 3 times as expensive. I plan on stacking the back corners of the wall with triangle traps, and then using 4'x2'x4" thick traps to form a 1/4 circle around my monitors, much like this guy did.

Steven P. Helm: DIY Bass Traps

What do I do?

As Ethan said it will work fine, but frame it up with wood if you can. In fact I would still frame up 703 to give it that "clean" look.
For placement here is a little layout you can go by to help you out. Let us know if you have any other questions.
BTW your going to love mixing in that room if you do things right!!



Glenn

[TheBeast]

Thanks for the boost in confidence guys! I really wish the room was several feet longer but I have to work with what I have.

Ethan, I was looking through your website (all day actually, tons of great stuff in there!) and I assume you're refering to the "deep bass" trap design on your site?

http://www.ethanwiner.com/BTPlans.gif

If so, I guess my plan of attack will be to line the walls with as many as I can fit.

Also, for the corner traps, would you suggest I use an adhesive caulk to bond the traps directly to the walls? Or is there a better way to absorb the bass?

Thanks again guys, this is going to be a fun weekend.

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by TheBeast

Thanks for the boost in confidence guys! I really wish the room was several feet longer but I have to work with what I have.

Ethan, I was looking through your website (all day actually, tons of great stuff in there!) and I assume you're refering to the "deep bass" trap design on your site?

http://www.ethanwiner.com/BTPlans.gif

If so, I guess my plan of attack will be to line the walls with as many as I can fit.

Also, for the corner traps, would you suggest I use an adhesive caulk to bond the traps directly to the walls? Or is there a better way to absorb the bass?

Thanks again guys, this is going to be a fun weekend.

With a room that is your size I would NOT go with that kind of bass trap. Those are tuned traps which are nice, but mostly for a big room or for icing on the cake kind of thing. What you want is broad band bass traps straddling as many corners as possible.

Glenn

[jwl]

As always Glenn and Ethan have it right.

In a room that small, there will definitely be challenges to getting good sound, but you can do it.

Among other things, you are going to have significant low end issues.
I'd consider making superchunks for all the corners; take your 2x4 rockwool panels, cut them in half (2x2), and then cut them in half again, diagonally. You are basically making rockwool triangles. Then, stack the corners floor-to-ceiling with those triangles. It's basically the same idea as straddling the corners with 4" of rockwool, but that extra mass of rockwool (with superchunks the airspace behind the panels is also filled) gives you a bit more low end absorption.

Ideally, you should do superchunks in ALL corners, including wall/ceiling corners.

Also, with the back wall that close to you, I'd pretty much line the entire back wall with rockwool, as well as the reflection points on the side walls and the ceiling.

In short, with a room this small you want to deaden it as much as you can. Buy as much rockwool as you can afford and get it all into your room!

Of course DIY is cheaper in terms of cash outlay, but it will require significant time and messy, unpleasant labor (rockwool irritates the skin and possibly the lungs... wear gloves, long sleeves, and maybe a breathing mask) on your part.

If you don't want to go this route, Glenn and Ethan can hook you up with some killer prefab solutions.

Good luck!

[TheBeast]

Will do. Sounds like I'll be making mineral wool triangles for all of my corners. How do you go about attaching the triangles to the wall, especially for the wall-ceiling joints? Construction adhesive?

I should have mentioned this earlier, but unfortunately one of my 6' walls happens to be concrete. Should I cover this somehow with mineral wool panels?

[jwl]

Look at the link for superchunks in my post above. You don't need to attach them to the wall; they will stay in place from pressure and gravity. Most people then build a simple wood frame, covered with cloth, to go over it.

Yes, I'd probably cover the concrete with rockwool.

You could potentially build a giant frame on each wall, that you would ultimately cover with cloth, that would incorporate both the absorption panels on the flat wall and the superchunks in the corners. Lots of ways to do it, it doesn't really matter as long as there is nothing blocking the airflow to and around the rockwool.

Think creatively and build what you think will look good. For bonus points, get your wife to help you design the look.... ;-)

[Jake Dempsey]

http://www.moldingsbest.com/Products.html

Check that out. Great deals on acoustic foam.

[Chris Kress]

Originally Posted by Ethan Winer

Mineral wool is fine. It's not as nice to work with as rigid fiberglass, and it sags so you need a frame, but acoustically it's just as good.

What you need is as many four-inch thick bass traps as you can possibly manage. You can make a room like that suitable for mixing, but you'll need to line every corner with bass traps, including wall-ceiling corners and even a few wall-floor corners if possible. If you cover the entire rear wall behind you with four or more inches thick, all the better. If you do all of that, you will take this room from terrible to "not too bad at all."

--Ethan

Do your best with the acoustics, but don't get down on yourself when you have problems with your mixes translating to the real world.. I would hate to be wrong about this. Please someone come in and tell me how a 6' x 9' room with a cubic volume of approximately 432 feet can work and not have insurmountable bass/midrange problems.. From my studies, rooms with cubic volume less than 1100 feet are not suitable..

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by Chris Kress

tell me how a 6' x 9' room with a cubic volume of approximately 432 feet can work and not have insurmountable bass/midrange problems.

Well, this is all the guy has, and it is indeed possible to make it a lot better. One man's "insurmountable" may well be another man's "I can't believe how much better this is now." Earlier you wrote:

Attempts at acoustic treatment will be futile. You might try light acoustic treatment to cure any standing waves.

My point is that it's not futile, and adding treatment - especially lots of bass traps - will make a very big improvement. Now, had the OP said, "I plan to do state of the art mastering" I'd agree with you 100 percent.

Think of it this way: If you're starving and someone offers you half a hamburger, should you refuse it because it's not the full meal you really need?

--Ethan

[jwl]

Chris, you certainly have a point; a 6'x9' room is pretty far from ideal. It's small, and 2 room dimensions are both multiples of 3. There will definitely be some low end room mode problems, big time. This is why I recommended superchunks in all corners.... that will give the most bang for the buck in low end in a small room.

But as Ethan mentions, this is what he has, and he can definitely make things better.

[Chris Kress]

To any friend of mine, I would recommend not to mix in this room. It will drive you crazy. Just set up another mixing area, or combine the small room into a larger combined mixing/tracking area... Best wishes...

[willvis]

I was just at a wonderful mastering studio in nashville and they are finishing up a new B room. they were telling how much diffuser panels----in this case, auralex t'fusor panels----can make in a small room.

Just saying...because it sounds really good in there.

I've been getting the best mixes ever out of my home studio lately, mainly due to some acoustic treatment I have been doing----and plan to do even more.