ATS Acoustics VS GIK

[wolfsbayne]

So, it looks like the cost of the ATS for 6 24x48x2 panels (ATS Acoustic Panel 24x48x2) is about $110 cheaper (price comparison factors shipping) than the same GIK panels (GIK ACOUSTICS) that size.

Anyone have any opinions to help me decide which ones to go with? They don't seem much different. Either way they both seem very reasonable.

Thanks!

[seawell]

The ATS panels have a 1/4" wood panel covered back and the GIK's have open backs. I would imagine the open back would allow for more absorption in the low frequencies but I'm sure there will be a few people along here shortly to let you know for sure.

[Glenn Kuras]

Hey wolfsbayne,

My name is Glenn Kuras and I am the owner of GIK Acoustics.


I can’t comment so much on ATS products but from my understanding it is 4
pound mineral wool with burlap stapled to a solid piece of wood. I really
think all panels need a air gap to the back. For a couple little areas here
and there it might work ok, but for us we have taken a little different
approach to the build, which if you compare our lab numbers you will see the
difference.

The core of our panels are built with 8 pound mineral wool with a wood frame
around the perimeter to not only give it stability and a way to hang, but it also gives it a air gap to the back to help absorb more of the low end and leaves the back open. We also put a plastic frame to the front (you can not see this) to keep all the edges sharp and clean. As far as fabric we use a special fabric (NOT CHEAP AT ALL) to the front which not only looks like something that should be on the wall but helps to act as a membrane to help pick up more of the low end but keeping more of the highs in the room. We also use a different fabric for the back that is very open celled to let sound through easily (very important).

Just on build alone we are pretty proud of our products and the price, but the one thing we have is a staff of people that can help you with room set
up. Not just some general, throw some stuff here and there but working with
each customer from start to end. I would HIGHLY recommend emailing us and
let us prove to you the level of expertise we have. I think (or should I say
I HOPE) you would justify the small price difference.

I hope that helps you a little.


Thanks,
Glenn

[hurd300403]

hey all,
The open back definitely does help for low freq absorption. The ATS panels can also be made with an open back design for $6 more I believe. I outfitted my entire mixing room with ATS's Owens Corning 705 2-inch rigid Fiberglass panels and I gotta say it made the most difference in my work than any piece of gear has!

I'm sure GIK has outstanding products as well, but the ATS build quality is perfectly acceptable and I expect to use them for many many years.

and they're a fantastic deal!

take care...

Originally Posted by seawell

The ATS panels have a 1/4" wood panel covered back and the GIK's have open backs. I would imagine the open back would allow for more absorption in the low frequencies but I'm sure there will be a few people along here shortly to let you know for sure.

[nemelas]

I can’t comment so much on ATS products but from my understanding it is 4
pound mineral wool with burlap stapled to a solid piece of wood. I really
think all panels need a air gap to the back. For a couple little areas here
and there it might work ok, but for us we have taken a little different
approach to the build, which if you compare our lab numbers you will see the
difference.

The core of our panels are built with 8 pound mineral wool

"4 pound and 8 pound wool" is this density? and if so whats numbers in kg/m3

thanks

[seawell]

Originally Posted by hurd300403

hey all,
The open back definitely does help for low freq absorption. The ATS panels can also be made with an open back design for $6 more I believe. I outfitted my entire mixing room with ATS's Owens Corning 705 2-inch rigid Fiberglass panels and I gotta say it made the most difference in my work than any piece of gear has!

I'm sure GIK has outstanding products as well, but the ATS build quality is perfectly acceptable and I expect to use them for many many years.

and they're a fantastic deal!

take care...

I think you can only get the open back option on 4" thick ATS panels, not their 2" thick panels.

[Ethan Winer]

Originally Posted by wolfsbayne

Anyone have any opinions to help me decide which ones to go with?

I won't answer directly with my opinion because I aim to be friends with everyone in this industry. But I will point out there's more to acoustic products than just the density of the material used inside. Ease of mounting and quality of construction are two issues. Then there's durability - will the fabric get ratty over time? If it's in a busy studio and people constantly bump into the traps, will they tear or get saggy looking? And so forth. But most important of all is the quality of support and advice a vendor can offer. Unless you're an acoustics expert yourself, you'll probably rely on the advice of the vendor. In that case you better hope the vendor is an expert.

--Ethan

[bpape]

OK. I'll stick my neck out and point out the differences even though I'm slightly jaded:

Besides the things Glenn has listed above, have you compared the absorbtion numbers on the panels? Look at the difference in performance below 250 Hz.

ATS 4"

50 0.22
63 0.26
80 0.28
100 0.68
125 0.65
250 1.10


GIK 244

50 0.47
63 0.45
80 0.66
100 0.89
125 0.93
160 0.84
200 1.05
250 1.00

These number are for an 'A' mount flat on the wall as per standardized testing. Both panels were tested in the same lab so a direct comparison should be relatively telling.

Add in that we'll work with you to determine what's best for your room and IMO it's a no brainer. Hey, sometimes we end up telling people to buy LESS than what they were initially interested in.

The point is that we want our customers to be happy with their purchase. We go the extra mile up front to provide you with a suggested treatment plan for your space and will work within the budget to get you the best solution that it will buy. After the sale, we'll still be happy to work with you with any placement issues, room setup to get you better performance, etc.

I can't speak to what ATS will do for you or to the experience any of their personnel may have in acoustical design and analysis. I simply don't know. It's not a slam, just that I don't know.

So I guess the question really is - " Is the extra performance and service worth an extra $110 for 6 panels (less $36 for the open backs)?" Only you can answer that.

[/end of public service announcement]

Bryan

[yarrick19]

Originally Posted by myfipie

Hey wolfsbayne,
We also put a plastic frame to the front (you can not see this) to keep all the edges sharp and clean.

How long have you been using this plastic frame? I have some GIK traps, one of which I disassembled to fit around a door handle and it didn't have a plastic frame...

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by yarrick19

How long have you been using this plastic frame? I have some GIK traps, one of which I disassembled to fit around a door handle and it didn't have a plastic frame...

Ever since it was tested, so I believe that would be about 1.5 years? Boy time flys!

[hurd300403]

ahh good call...but still the option is there for the 4 inch

Originally Posted by seawell

I think you can only get the open back option on 4" thick ATS panels, not their 2" thick panels.

[newfuturevintage]

I have a baker's dozen ATS acoustics traps, both the 2" and the 4" in 2x4 foot sizes, and 4" in 2x2.

My take on ATS: as a company, super easy to deal with, inexpensive, fast shippers, nice on the phone too.

My take on the panels: they worked great in my previously crappy sounding room, but were ridiculously heavy and an absolute bitch to hang. I ended up using "L" braces as shelves--putting the L's into the studs and drywall screwing the ATS panels into the L's. If I ever have to relocate them, I'm going to take a door-knob drill bit and ventilate the back & side panels to lighten the load and let more sound get to the mineral wool, then recover them.

Oh, they also stink when you first get them. I aired mine out for a few days to a week before bringing them into the house. The smell of unwashed burlap and (I'm assuming) formaldehyde glues. Nasty.

Minuses aside, I'm happy with the product for the price I paid.

[mikecorwin]

GIK Panels!

[hurd300403]

interesting...i don't recall having the smell issue with mine (it would have definitely been annoying though) put 'em up the day I got them. I will admit that 24 panels i ordered were VERY heavy in the shipping boxes.

The install wasn't too bad for me...about what I expected.

Originally Posted by newfuturevintage

I have a baker's dozen ATS acoustics traps, both the 2" and the 4" in 2x4 foot sizes, and 4" in 2x2.

My take on ATS: as a company, super easy to deal with, inexpensive, fast shippers, nice on the phone too.

My take on the panels: they worked great in my previously crappy sounding room, but were ridiculously heavy and an absolute bitch to hang. I ended up using "L" braces as shelves--putting the L's into the studs and drywall screwing the ATS panels into the L's. If I ever have to relocate them, I'm going to take a door-knob drill bit and ventilate the back & side panels to lighten the load and let more sound get to the mineral wool, then recover them.

Oh, they also stink when you first get them. I aired mine out for a few days to a week before bringing them into the house. The smell of unwashed burlap and (I'm assuming) formaldehyde glues. Nasty.

Minuses aside, I'm happy with the product for the price I paid.

[indie]

Anybody know how these compare?

Ready Acoustics, LLC - Afforadble, Durable, and Stylish Acoustic Products - Bass Traps - DIY! Solutions - Mounts - Insulation

[LaLaFaV]

Another for GIK here. I've bought ten 244's and two 6" monster bass traps from them and have been very satisfied with the service, quality and performance.

[blondmix]

Absolutely LOVE my GIK's. The room isn't finished yet, but already sounds REALLY good.....

[Glenn Kuras]

Wow!!!!!!!! Looks super cool..

Hey we have a new web site design that is live, but you mind if I post that picture on it? If you have anymore please send to glenn.k@gikacoustics.com


Thanks for the kind words.

Glenn

[mrface2112]

As a customer, I ordered some 6lb Roxul from ATS acoustics. It shipped the same day I ordered and got to me within a couple days. They get an "A" for service from me.

From that, I made 8 4in deep 2x4 panels and 2 2x2 panels. It was a great DIY project and my room sounds a lot better now (and i need a lot more panels).

However, between the raw material costs (roxul, lumber for frames and felt for covering) and the time i spent on making these panels.......it came out only a few dollars cheaper than if I'd just ordered from GIK in the first place. DIY was nice......but i don't have that kind of time anymore.

next month, it'll be a phone call to Glenn.


cheers,
wade

[Ryuben]

Originally Posted by mrface2112

As a customer, I ordered some 6lb Roxul from ATS acoustics. It shipped the same day I ordered and got to me within a couple days. They get an "A" for service from me.

From that, I made 8 4in deep 2x4 panels and 2 2x2 panels. It was a great DIY project and my room sounds a lot better now (and i need a lot more panels).

However, between the raw material costs (roxul, lumber for frames and felt for covering) and the time i spent on making these panels.......it came out only a few dollars cheaper than if I'd just ordered from GIK in the first place. DIY was nice......but i don't have that kind of time anymore.

next month, it'll be a phone call to Glenn.


cheers,
wade

I also just made some OC 703 panels - 3 2x4 and 2 corner "superchunks" covered with GOM 701. However, I bought my raw materials from sensiblesoundsolutions.com (thanks Bryan Pape!) I've attached a couple of pictures.

They came out much better than expected. I was able to use this project as my "cover" to buy some power tools...I did a cost analyis and when I subtract the cost of the power tools my panels cost just a bit less than if I had purchased from Glenn.

I think when I get around to my "second phase" of treatment I'm already leaning toward placing an order with GIK.
I'm happy with the panels I made. I'm glad I did it.
But now that is over and I look at the time involved - I'll probably just buy from GIK and save all that time I spent in the garage.

On a side note, Ethan, Glenn, Bryan I know you hear this all the time, but seriously thank you for being so open with your acoustic advice. I know you have your own businesses and have your own proprietary way of making these panels, but in my opinion you really have gone above and beyond with giving "free advice." Seriously - thank you.

So, there's my 2 cents.

[mrface2112]

Ryuben, those look really nice. I've attached a couple pics of mine as well. I put the frames on mine inside and used 1x2's for it.


cheers,
wade

[Ryuben]

Originally Posted by mrface2112

Ryuben, those look really nice. I've attached a couple pics of mine as well. I put the frames on mine inside and used 1x2's for it.


cheers,
wade

Thanks Wade.
I like seeing other people's designs on these things. Your construction of using the 1x2's gave you all that absorption on the side of the panels. Nice!
I'll bet they look nice on the walls of your place.

I can tell ya - cutting all the holes in my frames was a *real* pain.
some of the holes were cut just a little too close to the edge - which made getting the fabric stapled in those areas a little more challenging.
I then used the router on everything to give it a softer feel...
Sanded, stained, etc. It was a lot of work....and I'm sure you know exactly what I mean!
Now that I've done it, I can say I've done it.
I got what I wanted for my first phase of treatment, but I'm with you, Wade, I don't have that kind of time anymore.

To the original poster -
I have read a lot of good things about the GIK panels. Glenn (from GIK) gives a lot of good, free information on this site. I have nothing bad to say about ATS at all...but I know that when I get down to purchasing some panels with my next phase, I'm working with GIK.

[Acoustic Cloud]

Ryuben,

Those are too good looking for panels man! If I were you, I would look for some dummy VU meters, or maybe even cheap compasses to stick in the holes. I know that would cut down on the side exposure, but it would look like the most killer huge vintage wooden-sided preamp with 50 channels that anyone had ever seen!

Just think what client talk would spread about what you have........

Seriously though, those are way nice

[Ryuben]

Originally Posted by Acoustic Cloud

Ryuben,

Those are too good looking for panels man! If I were you, I would look for some dummy VU meters, or maybe even cheap compasses to stick in the holes. I know that would cut down on the side exposure, but it would look like the most killer huge vintage wooden-sided preamp with 50 channels that anyone had ever seen!

Just think what client talk would spread about what you have........

Seriously though, those are way nice

HA! Thanks...you do have a point...that would look killer!
All my recordings would *have* to sound good with a 50 channel wooden-sided preamp.

On a side note, the 2 other 2x4 traps like this that I made are designed so that I could have the option to keep them horizontal on the stands (like what was pictured) or re-orient them vertically and still use the same stand. That took a bit of careful planning but I wanted something that would allow me some flexibility.

[mrface2112]

Originally Posted by Ryuben

I like seeing other people's designs on these things.

As do I! I need to go add mine to Cojo's "big thread" (How I built my basstraps), b/c it seems to be a comprehensive thread for "design" ideas and pictures and such.

Originally Posted by Ryuben

Your construction of using the 1x2's gave you all that absorption on the side of the panels. Nice!

yeah, that's one of the things i wanted to optimize. i would've gone with 1x1's instead if i could've gotten away with it, but it seemed a little flimsy.

Originally Posted by Ryuben

I'll bet they look nice on the walls of your place.

i've got 3 suspended from the ceiling (horizontally) over top of the drums. they do a great job of "removing" the ceiling. 3 are hanging behind my monitors. the rest are, at the moment, free-standing for use as gobos. the 2x2 ones are great for isolating guitar amps.

i put eye hooks and wire on the ceiling (like you would on the back of a painting), and then installed J hooks on the back of the panels, and i simply hooked the hooks onto the wire. This works nicely for hanging them on the walls as well, and is how i did the ones behind my monitors. makes them very easy to reposition (as mine do double duty at times).

Originally Posted by Ryuben

I can tell ya - cutting all the holes in my frames was a *real* pain.
some of the holes were cut just a little too close to the edge - which made getting the fabric stapled in those areas a little more challenging.
I then used the router on everything to give it a softer feel...
Sanded, stained, etc. It was a lot of work....and I'm sure you know exactly what I mean!

i totally know what you mean! but that hard work really paid off in the look of those traps. did you use hole saws for those holes? i was going to originally do mine with 1x6 on the sides and jigsaw/rout out holes, sand, stain, etc., and have the wood be outside.....but my vacation from work was almost up and i needed to get them *done*.

Originally Posted by Ryuben

Now that I've done it, I can say I've done it.

"i can say i've done it" was, verbatim, exactly what i told my wife.

the most depressing part of it all was when i was done, i said "alright, now i need about 30 more of these damn things"........


cheers,
wade

[Glenn Kuras]

Originally Posted by Ryuben

I
But now that is over and I look at the time involved - I'll probably just buy from GIK and save all that time I spent in the garage.

On a side note, Ethan, Glenn, Bryan I know you hear this all the time, but seriously thank you for being so open with your acoustic advice. I know you have your own businesses and have your own proprietary way of making these panels, but in my opinion you really have gone above and beyond with giving "free advice." Seriously - thank you.

So, there's my 2 cents.

I am bios as hell, but it takes as little as $800 to maybe as much as $2000 (ave looking as sales) to get a room sounding pro, but most guys spend 3 to 20 times more, just in pre amps. Why not save money and build our own pre amps? Less labor, less sweat, does not itch.
In fact every time some asks "what kind of pre amp should I buy" I should just post plans on building your own.


Thanks guys for all the kind words, gearslutz rocks.

Glenn