acoustic foam

[TheInnerCircle4]

so i just bout some acoustic foam for my booth, i have the mic pointed at the corner of the room where the foam is? is that good for the sound? what is good mic positioning? thanks a lot!!

[hurd300403]

i would put the foam behind the mic so the singer is facing it. that way the vocal reflections are killed before they're able to reflect onto the walls behind them & get picked up by the mic.


though either way might work okay...depends on the quality of the foam you purchased. I'd definitely look into 705 rigid fiberglass from atsacoustics.com if you're still looking.


oh, also a carpet, or rug makes a HUGE difference.

[chris carter]

If you are trying to cut down on natural reverb in the room from getting into the vocal mic the thing to do is put your absoption BEHIND the singer facing the mic. I don't understand why people screw this up so much. A cardioid mic already rejects from the back but the human voice is relatively omni-directional. So if you put the absorption behind the mic you kill a little bit of voice from going out into the room, but the rest of it bounces around the room and goes right into the front of the mic where the mic is DESIGNED to pick it up! If you put the absorption behind the singer (best is to make a "V" shape or semi-circle with the legs equal to placement of the mic or further), then their voice goes out into the room, but it can't get back into the mic because it has to go through all the absorption. The only stuff that gets into the mic has to go in at the NULL point of the mic so it's already being rejected.

So what the original poster said is really ideal. Cover a corner and point the mic into that corner. That will generally work MUCH better than puttign absorption behind the mic.

[hurd300403]

nah, i disagree. just look at the design of a reflexion filter by SE electronics. I do understand what you're saying, but if you have something to kill the vocal reflections before they get a chance to reflect at all....you will get better results. oh and did i mention make sure you have a thick carpet, or rug?

Originally Posted by chris carter

If you are trying to cut down on natural reverb in the room from getting into the vocal mic the thing to do is put your absoption BEHIND the singer facing the mic. I don't understand why people screw this up so much. A cardioid mic already rejects from the back but the human voice is relatively omni-directional. So if you put the absorption behind the mic you kill a little bit of voice from going out into the room, but the rest of it bounces around the room and goes right into the front of the mic where the mic is DESIGNED to pick it up! If you put the absorption behind the singer (best is to make a "V" shape or semi-circle with the legs equal to placement of the mic or further), then their voice goes out into the room, but it can't get back into the mic because it has to go through all the absorption. The only stuff that gets into the mic has to go in at the NULL point of the mic so it's already being rejected.

So what the original poster said is really ideal. Cover a corner and point the mic into that corner. That will generally work MUCH better than puttign absorption behind the mic.

[t.dizzle]

Originally Posted by hurd300403

nah, i disagree. just look at the design of a reflexion filter by SE electronics.

No, he's right. I have a Reflexion Filter, and while it works fine, it doesn't beat the good ol' hanging blankets behind the vocalist trick. If you "make" a booth with gobos in the studio, you'll position them behind the vocalist as well.

[hurd300403]

ah...well perhaps it's a matter of preference. I know i have had much better results with treatment in front of the singer. 705 rigid fiberglass all the way. I guess it depends on the quality of the material you're using to begin with.

hmm...it would depend on the mic you're using as well.

short answer....try both ways and see for yourself what works for your room/setup!

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

No, he's right. I have a Reflexion Filter, and while it works fine, it doesn't beat the good ol' hanging blankets behind the vocalist trick. If you "make" a booth with gobos in the studio, you'll position them behind the vocalist as well.

[t.dizzle]

Originally Posted by hurd300403

ah...well perhaps it's a matter of preference. I know i have had much better results with treatment in front of the singer. 705 rigid fiberglass all the way. I guess it depends on the quality of the material you're using to begin with.

hmm...it would depend on the mic you're using as well.

short answer....try both ways and see for yourself what works for your room/setup!

No, actually, there is science behind what Chris said - at least with a typical cardioid pattern.

[hurd300403]

yes, of course there is science behind everything in audio, but I know for a fact what works better for me...and it's exactly what i've explained. The placement of the "foam" can still be a preference depending on an individuals room and what works best for the mic they're using. Because not all of the reflections are going to be absorbed unless you have an incredibly built booth (even then not all of them) the foam placement will dampen the audio in different (or preferable) ways.

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

No, actually, there is science behind what Chris said - at least with a typical cardioid pattern.

[t.dizzle]

Originally Posted by hurd300403

but I know for a fact what works better for me...

How? Just askin'...

[hurd300403]

...i've tried both ways and i get less room reflections with 705 rigid fiberglass in front of the singer...according to my mackie 824s, treated mix room, and ears.

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

How? Just askin'...

[t.dizzle]

Coo...coo.. So I guess you're not recording in your "treated room" then?

[hurd300403]

preferably no, but whatever the situation calls for. it's not as easy to tell what the sounds being recorded are if the mic'd source is in the same room as your listening environment.

i have never recorded vocals in my mixing room, though i do want to try a phase trick i read about when you've got a singer that can't seem to track well with headphones. You bring them in the mix room and align the mic in phase with the speakers so the mix is canceled out and the singer can hear the audio with no headphones.

off topic, but interesting IMO. curious if it works well...too lazy to try.

[t.dizzle]

Originally Posted by hurd300403

preferably no, but whatever the situation calls for. it's not as easy to tell what the sounds being recorded are if the mic'd source is in the same room as your listening environment.

i have never recorded vocals in my mixing room, though i do want to try a phase trick i read about when you've got a singer that can't seem to track well with headphones. You bring them in the mix room and align the mic in phase with the speakers so the mix is canceled out and the singer can hear the audio with no headphones.

off topic, but interesting IMO. curious if it works well...too lazy to try.

You know...There are people here who have known and used that "trick" for many years that you read about. Just something to think about.

[hurd300403]

yup, which is why i have thought about it.

some other people chime in! what works better for you? treatment in front or behind the mic & singer? my guess is that most people will say behind, but probably because they've never tried in front...

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

You know...There are people here who have known and used that "trick" for many years that you read about. Just something to think about.

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by hurd300403

ah...well perhaps it's a matter of preference. I know i have had much better results with treatment in front of the singer. 705 rigid fiberglass all the way. I guess it depends on the quality of the material you're using to begin with.

hmm...it would depend on the mic you're using as well.

short answer....try both ways and see for yourself what works for your room/setup!

Wouldnt it be interesting to try both at the same time?

That way you kill reflections from the front and the rear, making the vocal even more dry... if thats what someone is looking for in this particular case anyway...

[PettyCash]

Originally Posted by hurd300403

yup, which is why i have thought about it.

some other people chime in! what works better for you? treatment in front or behind the mic & singer? my guess is that most people will say behind, but probably because they've never tried in front...

I say either way is gonna be some what of an improvement over nothing at all. But if I had to choose one, I'd audition both and see what works for that given situation, or just take care of reflections from both the front and the rear.

Why are we not also talking about killing reflections from the sides as well?
The sides are still a concern when using the cardiod pickup pattern.

And even the floor and the ceiling come into effect, especially if the floor is hardwood.

If you take care of the front, rear, sides, floor, and ceiling of the area you are recording in with the mic, you will basically have yourself a complete make-shift vocal booth.

[hurd300403]

yup, i totally agree that is the way to go. I was just trying to give some advice for the original posters needs. Perhaps he doesn't have enough to really do both front and back? I agree that both is the way to go...and as you pointed out the floor and ceiling is are vital too.

A carpet/rug is such an easy thing to setup, but so many times people overlook using them!

Originally Posted by PettyCash

Wouldnt it be interesting to try both at the same time?

That way you kill reflections from the front and the rear, making the vocal even more dry... if thats what someone is looking for in this particular case anyway...

[t.dizzle]

Originally Posted by hurd300403

my guess is that most people will say behind, but probably because they've never tried in front...

Arrogance personified.

The baffle technique that I'm talking about with blankets/gobos covers the sides. In a studio with wood floors, you may want to put a rug down on the floor but the ceiling doesn't really come into play. Sometimes, a little reflection adds to the sound.

Some of you guys should understand that recording wasn't invented the day you decided to become an engineer. Of course, experimentation is part of the fun and learning process but these things have all been sussed out 40 years ago...And nothing has changed since.

[chris carter]

Originally Posted by chris carter

I don't understand why people screw this up so much.

I really don't.

[hurd300403]

hahaha

[hurd300403]

i'm not being arrogant...i'm making a general assumption

Originally Posted by t.dizzle

Arrogance personified.