Strings creaking when recording accoustic guitar

[dibravibra]

Hello!

Today I recorded a guy with accoustic guitar. He played a song exclusively with fingers. I used two mics for stereo recording. Oktava MK 012 on 12-th fret and CAD E-300 (old school) on bridge position. My client was very pleased with the sound but I immediately noticed string creaking (hope this is the right word). I changed mics (Beyerdynamic Opus 53 & Neuman U67) but problem remined. I tried some other stereo positions but nothing helped. Mics were very close to guitar because we wanted that near sound. I did a lot recordings with these mics but this is the fisrt time that creaking of strings was so obvious. Preamps were Studer 962 . Any idea, guys? How do you deal with such problem?
Thank you for your advices..

[n8tron]

huh... personally I LOVE string squeeking and generally will put a mic near my the hands when recording acoustic to capture it even more.

I you really want to get rid of it, try either pointing the mic more towards the sound hole but then rolling off a lot of low end... or you try and sugically eq it out... but see how it fits in the mix.. i think its always quite pleasant.

[scrubs]

Mic position is key. Using string lubricant (finger-ease, fast fret, etc.) can help, as does soaking the fretting hand in warm water prior to tracking (to soften callouses).

[loujudson]

I happen to HATE that sound - and I feel it is entirely in the hands (or fingers) of the player. They CAN learn to lift their fingers so they don't slide along the strings, if they care. If they don't care, then it is part of their sound...

I do not play so I cannot vouch for how they feel about it, but I feel it is a playing fault. The other tips here will help reduce them, but they are a playing problem in my opinion...

Lou

[CommunityMart]

Lou... baby....

there are some good string squeekers out there man. Sometimes it is all love. Sometimes I think "you need a new guitar"! But there is some personality in what I think y'all are talking about.

If it is fast, sometimes you can't help the "scratch".

I just hope you get some good "noise" and not bad noise in the future.

**************
I think your problem may be: client's choice or your choice (client's choice or my choice)

If you can get rid of the stringnoise and make him like it. Great. Is retracking an option??? ^^^^

[loujudson]

I know, I know. I made a rash statement, and not being a guitar player I don't need to justify it - just pick my clients carefully! Like in a project last year, the mando player could not avoid making clicks when his pick struck the pickguard on his instrument. I called his attention to it in the session, and he said he can't help it. I did NOT offer to spend hours removing the clicks in Protools, but mentioned it...

My truest feeling is, if it doesn't bother the player (or client) then it is fine. But even live, I respect a squeaker less than a clean player. But then, I have worked with some of the best guitar players out there in the folk/acoustic world, and some squeak and some don't! I do NOT argue it with them for it is not a good thing to criticize a player at a live gig.

And, since I don't lay guitar, I do not understand why they don't all play smooth wound strings! (oh, yes I do... But at least they don't squeak!)
Lou

[kafka]

Originally Posted by dibravibra

Any idea, guys? How do you deal with such problem?

Silk and Steel strings. Much less string squeaking than bronze phosphor or 80/20's.

[Sparks6505]

You can lightly rub medium coarse sandpaper over the strings for a quick fix, this will take out the squeak without having to change mics or mess with eq

[Fretbored]

Originally Posted by loujudson

I happen to HATE that sound - and I feel it is entirely in the hands (or fingers) of the player. They CAN learn to lift their fingers so they don't slide along the strings, if they care. If they don't care, then it is part of their sound...

I do not play so I cannot vouch for how they feel about it, but I feel it is a playing fault. The other tips here will help reduce them, but they are a playing problem in my opinion...

Lou

This couldn't be more true when referring to silibant, annoying string graze. However, technique is a hard thing to fix in 10 minutes. Elixirs and finger-ease is the best you can do in a near instant.

[alnico]

Originally Posted by Sparks6505

You can lightly rub medium coarse sandpaper over the strings for a quick fix, this will take out the squeak without having to change mics or mess with eq

I lightly sand the callouses especially if the player plays acoustic alot. They'll have some serious pads sometimes and a little emery board to the rough fingertips works good as part of the formula to stop the "annoyance".

[peeder]

Elixirs and de-essers. Older strings will squeak less than new (but will also just be duller overall).

[Fretbored]

Oh yeh, and a de-esser...like...Peeder...just...said. Dangit, I always leave somethin out.

[dibravibra]

Thank you guys!! I've just inserted deeser on recorded material and it helps a lot. I think it will be OK later in the mix..
Thanx again!!

[seclusion]

Sometimes it's just when you have new strings on the guitar.
I've had that too, where I've thought , ok it's been 6 months with those strings (lot's of use) I guess I should put on a new pair. Never do that half way through a session. Changes everything!
Usually within an hour of playing (sweat) it's all gone

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by loujudson

I happen to HATE that sound - and I feel it is entirely in the hands (or fingers) of the player. They CAN learn to lift their fingers so they don't slide along the strings, if they care. If they don't care, then it is part of their sound...

I do not play so I cannot vouch for how they feel about it, but I feel it is a playing fault. The other tips here will help reduce them, but they are a playing problem in my opinion...

Lou

Sometimes you can lift your fingers off to reset to the next note or chord in order to not here the squeek, but it can be an artistic a trade off because as soon as you lift off ,you loose the string sustain of the note . so there is no right way really!!!

[jmanjet]

I've recorded with and without Elixer strings, and I would recommend them. The nanoweb sound great and cut down on the squeek. I know this has been mentioned already, but I just thought I would throw in my 2 cents.

[loujudson]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Sometimes you can lift your fingers off to reset to the next note or chord in order to not here the squeek, but it can be an artistic a trade off because as soon as you lift off ,you loose (lose?) the string sustain of the note . so there is no right way really!!!

As I said, I do not play so I am asking with geniune interest. Is it possible to move the fingers so cleanly and accuretely that there is no squeak? I've heard different players play the same thing and one will make the squeaks and one will not,l with niether losing the sustain. It seems to me to be a delicate balance between how hard you press and how fast and accurately you get from one note to another. The squeaks happen when you drag the fingers with some pressure instead of sliding them lightly along, it would seem.

As a sound and recording engineer, I have seen it done, and find great respect for the players who don't squeak their strings - but there are noises like that on some old favorite John Renbourne records I've known most of my life ("I've Got a Feeling" from Sweet Child by Pentangle) but their studio records have much less squeaking.

But last year I did a CD for a less professional band and when I pointed out that the mando player was hitting the pickguard with a click on every note, he said that's just the way he plays... I refrained from offering to edit each tick out as they had a limited budget.

I am to much a perfectionist and not making anyone wrong, just trying to learn more about my passion, recording music!

L

[Jrussell99]

Use Talcum powder my friend...Works like a charm

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by loujudson

As I said, I do not play so I am asking with geniune interest. Is it possible to move the fingers so cleanly and accuretely that there is no squeak? I've heard different players play the same thing and one will make the squeaks and one will not,l with niether losing the sustainIt seems to me to be a delicate balance between how hard you press and how fast and accurately you get from one note to another. The squeaks happen when you drag the fingers with some pressure instead of sliding them lightly along, it would seem.

As a sound and recording engineer, I have seen it done, and find great respect for the players who don't squeak their strings -
but there are noises like that on some old favorite John Renbourne records I've known most of my life ("I've Got a Feeling" from Sweet Child by Pentangle) but their studio records have much less squeaking.

But last year I did a CD for a less professional band and when I pointed out that the mando player was hitting the pickguard with a click on every note, he said that's just the way he plays... I refrained from offering to edit each tick out as they had a limited budget.

I am to much a perfectionist and not making anyone wrong, just trying to learn more about my passion, recording music!

L

.I do not claim to be an expert, in terms of technique. I have played the acoustic steel string since the mid 60s but with no formal training . I have gone to 2 Guitar workshops lately but the focus was more different cord arrangements. But my sense is that there are multiple factors involved... such as string sustain , and the sustain and or resonance in the guitar body working at the same time. I am given to understand that string sustain will end the instant you release pressure on the string, while a cleanly played note may continue ring in the body . I do however that personally agree , that loud sting squeak from draging the finger in place while changing position can be annoying. And I try not to do so. As far as the pic hitting anything other than the strings, I have been guilty of this also and consider it an undesirable fault of bad habit, which I realized I had not noticed until recording with good equipment, as opposed to playing live, where I presume all the other noise hid the pic clicking the guard, as well as any squeaks . While I feel like I would like to lessen any squeaks personally. I am not certain that one can entirely depending on the tonal effect one is trying to achieve. Just going from memory here but it seems I have heard even Segovia squeak occasionally on some recordings. Just some thoughts !!! PS buy the way love the Pentangle . Check out if you can Gabor Szabo Socerer

[loujudson]

Thanks Keywind. I certainly don't expect perfection in music, then it would be artificial. But it's all good when we can pay attention and improve.

Yeah, I remember Sorcerer but haven't heard it for years... Anyone who doesn't know about him, he died way too young in 1982. Check out this video, and the sliding chords at the end have no squeaks! It's only too bad he did not have modern pickups on his axe - the tone here is terrible but the playing stellar!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gkg7U...eature=related

L

[dwall]

Originally Posted by loujudson

As I said, I do not play so I am asking with geniune interest. Is it possible to move the fingers so cleanly and accuretely that there is no squeak? I've heard different players play the same thing and one will make the squeaks and one will not,l with niether losing the sustain. It seems to me to be a delicate balance between how hard you press and how fast and accurately you get from one note to another. The squeaks happen when you drag the fingers with some pressure instead of sliding them lightly along, it would seem.

As a sound and recording engineer, I have seen it done, and find great respect for the players who don't squeak their strings - but there are noises like that on some old favorite John Renbourne records I've known most of my life ("I've Got a Feeling" from Sweet Child by Pentangle) but their studio records have much less squeaking.

But last year I did a CD for a less professional band and when I pointed out that the mando player was hitting the pickguard with a click on every note, he said that's just the way he plays... I refrained from offering to edit each tick out as they had a limited budget.

I am to much a perfectionist and not making anyone wrong, just trying to learn more about my passion, recording music!

L

Not having string squeak is not necessarily a sign of better playing. I was recording an uptempo song recently (on classical guitar) that involves a lot of string slides and was getting a lot of squeaks. The thing is, it was a re-recording of a song I'd recorded a few years ago, and on the original recording with the same guitar and same strings: no squeaks at all. Why? Well, the original recording was done in the summer, and in a basement apartment studio. It was more humid, and my hands were probably sweating. Also, I can hear that the strings are older (though old strings can squeak too). In the recording the other day, it's winter time, and the humidity is much lower (about 35 - 40%), the strings aren't new but are probably mid-way through their life, and my hands were really dry. My playing technique is the same. No matter how I position my fingers (which can affect squeak), I'm getting a high pitched squeak as I slide between chords. This isn't a song where I can lift my fingers. So, to get rid of the squeak I merely dip my hands in some warm water. That totally got rid of it.

Live, under the lights etc... my hands sweat as well = no squeak.

Sharon Isbin (an internationally respected classical guitar master, who created the Julliard guitar program) has said that for studio recordings she only uses unpolished bass strings because they are much less prone to squeaking. So, choice of strings factors in as well. Live, it's not as much of an issue.

So, next time you see someone squeaking, please don't assume they have poor technique. If a guitar has high action, the strings are new and the air is very dry and the song requires sliding between chords: the best player in the world will squeak. It will be especially prominent if you are recording with a sensitive condensor mic aimed anyway near the fretboard and have a compressor going.

Finally, some people like the sound. It's like how some people like the sound of a singer inhaling and might even emphasize it. I like hearing wind players inhale if it's not a big ensemble.

[loujudson]

dwall wrote:

"So, next time you see someone squeaking, please don't assume they have poor technique. If a guitar has high action, the strings are new and the air is very dry and the song requires sliding between chords: the best player in the world will squeak. It will be especially prominent if you are recording with a sensitive condensor mic aimed anyway near the fretboard and have a compressor going.

Finally, some people like the sound. It's like how some people like the sound of a singer inhaling and might even emphasize it. I like hearing wind players inhale if it's not a big ensemble."

All you say is fine and good to hear. It is a matter of taste, to me, and relating it to breaths is a bit off the topic - it is more like the difference between a vocalist who inhales vs one who gasps when doing it...

Also, you should know that over 15 years of engineering audioboioks and radio interviews, one of my jobs was editing out breaths and mouth clicks so I am sensitized to distracting noises that are not speech or music. And I have herpost clients who love my ability to edit out string buzzes they make by accident.

Interesting that wetting your fingers stopped the squecks - others say talcum powder will stop it by drying them. Hmm.

I'm not really wanting to debate it or attack anyone. It's been interesting to learn though!

L

[dwall]

Originally Posted by loujudson

dwall wrote:

"So, next time you see someone squeaking, please don't assume they have poor technique. If a guitar has high action, the strings are new and the air is very dry and the song requires sliding between chords: the best player in the world will squeak. It will be especially prominent if you are recording with a sensitive condensor mic aimed anyway near the fretboard and have a compressor going.

Finally, some people like the sound. It's like how some people like the sound of a singer inhaling and might even emphasize it. I like hearing wind players inhale if it's not a big ensemble."

All you say is fine and good to hear. It is a matter of taste, to me, and relating it to breaths is a bit off the topic - it is more like the difference between a vocalist who inhales vs one who gasps when doing it...

Also, you should know that over 15 years of engineering audioboioks and radio interviews, one of my jobs was editing out breaths and mouth clicks so I am sensitized to distracting noises that are not speech or music. And I have herpost clients who love my ability to edit out string buzzes they make by accident.

Interesting that wetting your fingers stopped the squecks - others say talcum powder will stop it by drying them. Hmm.

I'm not really wanting to debate it or attack anyone. It's been interesting to learn though!

L

Oh, my point was just that it's not necessarily a sign of good or bad technique. You can have perfect technique and still squeak. Personally I don't like squeaking, and I edit it out of most of my recordings if it shows up. I'm also particular about breaths and mouth clicks, and will even copy and paste breaths if I don't like the sound of one. The reason I make the comparison is exactly as you say: some people gasp or vocalize while breathing in, and instead of editing it out, the mixing engineer will leave it in full blast, but I consider it distracting. They consider it part of the performance. Perhaps a better example is bright sibilance, which some people like (I don't).

I wasn't accusing you of attacking. I was just addressing some of the questions you were asking. You said that you have more respect for players who don't squeak, but the truth is that a player may not squeak at all one day, but will the next on the same guitar.

I haven't tried talcum powder, but I have tried corn starch-based baby powder and it didn't work. Warm water works perfectly for me, and other people use that as well. Whatever works.

[66d35]

Certainly, Elixirs can help a lot. I find they record really well.

Andy

[Latinlover]

Try Pyramid's Flat Wounds, instant "Things we said today" sound and no creaking sound .

[mojo1]

String squeaks fixed with soaking the callouses? Sanding the callouses??? I hope your guitar guy only has one song to track!!!! If he's got 2 sessions that day, he'll be hurtin'!!! (and won't be much use!). I would try some other alternatives first before you resort to that!

Generally, the only time I have the squeak problem is when the studio is blasting the AC at meat locker temperatures. I LOVE cool air, but it is a problem when I play (not to mention dexterity issues!).

I use coated strings ALWAYS. It's not a choice for me, I kill regular strings in a song or two. They seem less inclined to squeak for some reason. My choice is the GHS Infinity Bronze mediums. I've had good luck with all of the coated brands. The GHS sound more like "REAL" strings than Elixers do, but a couple of my guitars LOVE a strict diet of Elixer Nanoweb mediums... Lots of choices, try 'em out.

I ALWAYS put on new strings before a session! If I have old, dead strings, they are harder to tune AND might squeak (as my fingers scrape the rust off the unwounds!).


So. Check the temp, try some coated strings, make sure you always track with new strings.

That's my simple solution... it hasn't let me down yet.