Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulP  Andreas, I really don't want to be a pain in your neck, but your behaviour
is that of one who has lived a religious experience. I know you're excited
about finding a new way at looking at things, and discovering a new tool,
but you don't have to get down on your knees and kiss the feet of the
person who opened your eyes. Especially when that person is very disruptive
and unhelpful, and treats everyone like trash. |
Haha! That's clear cut feedback. Thanks! Chuckle.. No, it wasn't a religious experience. It's just the good old gearslut joy of having a new tool to play with! Did my first meager attempts at acoustic measurements some years ago. Started out with a dynamic mic, paying attention to low end only. It worked well enough to show relative differences down there. The other graphs told me nothing. Bought the RplusD/ETF (calibrated SDC)mic+pre+software kit last summer as the diffuser build rolled on. Thought I'd finally get something useful covering the frequency areas of imaging. Got disappointed. Was still nothing actually useable up there above the low end. Until the ETC talk came along and showed me what sort of user error it was! So, it's like I've had an EQ for months before learning how to disengage the bypass on the upper bands. That makes me a happy camper!
Dykstraster: Am using both RplusD/ETF and REW. Both works fine. RplusD works better for some things, is deeper, though a bit clunkier in the interface. REW is nice to look at and we all know that makes a difference. The ETC graphs in my previous post came out of REW.
As for feet kissing, please go back and reread what I wrote. It seems to me that's a personal interpretation a bit beyond the phrasings that was actually being used. Saying yay to ETC's doesn't mean that I'm a fan of aggressiveness, whoever it comes from. It takes more than one person to have a brawl..
Being an optimist, I'm assuming that everyone is trying to their best ability in whatever they do. It's obvious that not everyone have as much capacity as one might desire when it comes to compassion, patience, friendliness etc. It's not exactly surprising. It goes for all of us! We're ordinary humans, not Dalai Lamas. I'm easily lost as well. Not in this debate though, as I have nothing personal invested in this in any way. Wish I could keep as calm regarding other things in life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulP I've been objecting to the ETC being
promoted as the only tool necessary and worthy of our consideration, regardless
of context. I'll continue to do so to protect any new innocents who come along. |
It'll be an easy job. As far as I've seen, that claim has not been made.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulP Good ! The only way that makes sense to me (and probably a few others around
here) to discuss the ETC is to provide examples of both graphs and the
methodology used in acquiring and interpreting them. Real world examples.
How about your room since you've made yourself spokesman for the subject ?
(I promise I'll be exposing the testing and treatment of my room once I start). |
Been meaning to get to it, but it takes too much time compared to the fun factor.. .. One day!
And.. I don't want to be spokeman on the subject, please. Trying to avoid potential trouble.
Woke up today and had an aha! moment. Not the pop group, thank god, it was in regard to this subject. Think I see what the misunderstanding is about. Have a feeling you and Dan want a description ala this:
RealTraps - How To Set Up a Room - am I right in this assumption?
The ETC talk have not and will not procure forth such a step by step guide to room treatment complete with placement of traps. It's not like an electronic schematic for a particular piece of equipment. Rather it represents an observation concept akin to THD measurements. No matter what sort of electronics you want to build, you'll have to use THD measurements to get it right. It will very possibly change practical aspects of the design but it will not tell you anything about the design in itself. ETC's span a bit wider than that though. If you go about suppressing the first 20 milliseconds, the usual suspects (side walls, cloud, SBIR) have been automatically covered in the process. You may start in the other end, by treating those points and observe the effect on the ETC, and it'll still get to the same end result. The difference is that the ETC way caters for any and all situation, including the odd multiple reflections that may get back to the sweetspot within 20 milliseconds. The general first reflection point treatment may miss those. ETC's will also tell if each individual piece of treatment have been successfull in its designed task.
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Originally Posted by PaulP That was the intention, we've had enough of dogma. |
Well done. Played me like a puppet! How high do you want me to jump? :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulP Except that it still hasn't been done by anyone. Those few brave souls who
did post the test results for their small rooms were completely ignored. |
Some day when I'm bored I'll treat the toilet just to prove the point. Hehe.. Seriously, I think you've seen it done already in slightly larger scale than your room. (you've mentioned 3x4x5 meters in a post way back. that's only slightly smaller than mine!) Acoustics doesn't change as the room shrinks from some thousand to thousand cubic feet. If you're in such a small box, we all know you have to trap the hell out of it and take a meditation class to avoid claustrophobia!
Had a look in MHoA. In the fifth edition, it's in chapter twenty - acoustics of control room, under the heading "initial time-delay gaps in practice". It shows, amongst other things, a D'Antonio designed very small room with a clean cut ISD of 10 millisecs. In chapter twenty one, there's a description of a voice over booth with an even smaller ISD. Chapter twenty four covers the use of ETC measurements using ETF as an example.
Glad we can talk without foul words. Lets give it good try at keeping it that way, everyone, please?
PS: a big hug to those who manage to draw something useful out of this mess. You're the best!
Cheers,
Andreas