Gearslutz.com - View Single Post - what mic for woodwind in a very noisy environment?

lajos · 13th November 2009

Wow, thanks for all the answers.

springer

Expensive hardware is not a good idea for most live situations I think. (But that Royer R122 sure looks like a nice mic.

The studio we use for sessions/practice has some Sennheiser 421 mics, and I thought about renting one of those for next session. However, I didn't think of those for live usage. (In the studio, in principle, we could have the 'noise' on headphones rather than on speakers, then the 421 could be an acceptable (and cheap because of availability) option, but we'll have to try whether it would work live as well.)

The 441 is quite a different mic, and would be quite an investment as well (although slightly less than the Royer). We'll have to see whether we can arrange some kind of trials for these kinds of mics, but even then, they might be out of reach for financial reasons.

avebr

A second vote for the 441.
And indeed, the figure 8 worries me somewhat, because most live environments I am used to are far from ideal and getting the noise in the null point would be near impossible.

The Crown CM-700 is in quite a different class indeed, financially speaking. It looks interesting, although one of the reviews I read mentioned that it does distort high notes of wind instruments. Also, we'd probably have to get it very close, and get the woodwind player to try to not move too much. (What kind of distance would you suggest, and where to position it with soprano sax and flute?)

The Sennheiser MKH40 is another really nice mic that seems well out of reach. (Unless CD sales suddenly explode, and we get rich, of course.)

fifthcircle

A third vote for dynamic.
And a second warning about directionality.
Also, a third vote for the 441.

The Beyers are both more affordable options, but look more like studio mics than live mics to me. Nevertheless, an interesting suggestion.

Clip-ons would be good for the soprano sax indeed (although the sound is not ideal), but for the variety of other wooden and metal flutes used, I have my doubts. And live, it would be preferable to have just one mic for all of these (which makes the problem even more difficult than it already is).

Marlan

I think we tried the Shures, but had terrible results. (I'll have to check which mics we used to be sure.) Even in the rehearsal studio, while the woodwinds were actually louder (or sounded louder to us) than the rest of the music (on speakers, with the mics directed away from the speakers), the mics picked up more of the rest of the music than the woodwind instruments.

A third very conditional vote for condensers.
And I agree, as mentioned above, that using ribbons live might be rather difficult.

A second vote for clip-ons.
The Audio Technica mics you suggest look very interesting. Very affordable, and with nice characteristics. Those indeed deserve further investigation.

Roland

More votes for clip-ons.

How would the DPA work for flute? (Or any clip-on, for that matter.)

And I really have to check what Shure we used. And if it wasn't the 58, rent one from the studio to try.

jnorman

And a fourth vote for clip-on.

Jim van Bergen

And another vote for the 441.

So the current tally is:
- Sennheiser 441: 4 votes
- clip-on (DPA or Audio Technica): 4 votes

Thanks (again) for all the suggestions.
I'll do some further investigations about the clip-ons (I'm especially wondering about how to use those for different woodwind instruments, such as flutes (and even didgeridoo).) Ideas and suggestions are, of course, very welcome.

13th November 2009	#10
lajos Gear interested Joined: Nov 2009 Location: Tokyo Posts: 2 Thread Starter	Wow, thanks for all the answers. springer Expensive hardware is not a good idea for most live situations I think. (But that Royer R122 sure looks like a nice mic. The studio we use for sessions/practice has some Sennheiser 421 mics, and I thought about renting one of those for next session. However, I didn't think of those for live usage. (In the studio, in principle, we could have the 'noise' on headphones rather than on speakers, then the 421 could be an acceptable (and cheap because of availability) option, but we'll have to try whether it would work live as well.) The 441 is quite a different mic, and would be quite an investment as well (although slightly less than the Royer). We'll have to see whether we can arrange some kind of trials for these kinds of mics, but even then, they might be out of reach for financial reasons. avebr A second vote for the 441. And indeed, the figure 8 worries me somewhat, because most live environments I am used to are far from ideal and getting the noise in the null point would be near impossible. The Crown CM-700 is in quite a different class indeed, financially speaking. It looks interesting, although one of the reviews I read mentioned that it does distort high notes of wind instruments. Also, we'd probably have to get it very close, and get the woodwind player to try to not move too much. (What kind of distance would you suggest, and where to position it with soprano sax and flute?) The Sennheiser MKH40 is another really nice mic that seems well out of reach. (Unless CD sales suddenly explode, and we get rich, of course.) fifthcircle A third vote for dynamic. And a second warning about directionality. Also, a third vote for the 441. The Beyers are both more affordable options, but look more like studio mics than live mics to me. Nevertheless, an interesting suggestion. Clip-ons would be good for the soprano sax indeed (although the sound is not ideal), but for the variety of other wooden and metal flutes used, I have my doubts. And live, it would be preferable to have just one mic for all of these (which makes the problem even more difficult than it already is). Marlan I think we tried the Shures, but had terrible results. (I'll have to check which mics we used to be sure.) Even in the rehearsal studio, while the woodwinds were actually louder (or sounded louder to us) than the rest of the music (on speakers, with the mics directed away from the speakers), the mics picked up more of the rest of the music than the woodwind instruments. A third very conditional vote for condensers. And I agree, as mentioned above, that using ribbons live might be rather difficult. A second vote for clip-ons. The Audio Technica mics you suggest look very interesting. Very affordable, and with nice characteristics. Those indeed deserve further investigation. Roland More votes for clip-ons. How would the DPA work for flute? (Or any clip-on, for that matter.) And I really have to check what Shure we used. And if it wasn't the 58, rent one from the studio to try. jnorman And a fourth vote for clip-on. Jim van Bergen And another vote for the 441. So the current tally is: - Sennheiser 441: 4 votes - clip-on (DPA or Audio Technica): 4 votes Thanks (again) for all the suggestions. I'll do some further investigations about the clip-ons (I'm especially wondering about how to use those for different woodwind instruments, such as flutes (and even didgeridoo).) Ideas and suggestions are, of course, very welcome.